[access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
- From: "Dave Taylor" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:40:08 -0000
Hi,
Sounds like a useful list for me. Could you let us have the subs address
please? I hope it isn't a yahoo one!
Cheers
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dj Paddy" <mygroups@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
> Hi Brian.
>
> I am somewhat more confident and computer literate than alot of blind and
> visually impaired people. This is a very fair point.
>
> I do have my moments though. I'm flowndering trying to learn to use
> Window
> Eyes, in addition to doing a degree in computer science. Which alot of my
> modules this semester happen to be quite visual.
>
> I get stressed out as much as anyone to the point that I have tension
> headaches and cant' be bothered with my PC when I get home. Or flick on
> Jaws because it's comfortable and I don't at that time have the patience
> to
> fafth with Window Eye's and I just want to get done what I want to get
> done
> after a long hard day.
>
> I know too well about training. Who would train me with Window Eye's?
>
> Alot of the training is foundational or intermediate computing in
> conjunction with Window Eye's.
>
> I trained a lady two years back with Jaws. Who had went through three so
> called trainers before her number was passed on to me through her FE
> College.
>
> I am not a certified BCAB trainer. Simply because I dont' have the cash
> to
> go and train for that cert.
>
> However, I gave this lady what many others didn't. I listened to what she
> wanted to know and structured my class around that. I listened to her
> about
> the mess people had given her and was shocked when nobody had even gave
> her
> a simple text file with easy to remember steps for perform various tasks
> in
> it, or even told how how to tell where abouts she was located in Windows.
>
> Your points about Mac Vs Windows are very true. And Linux is even truer.
> I
> believe it's part market share and part sophistication of the operating
> systems core components.
>
> On the Jaws version 8 front.
>
> I saw it's feature list and felt anger towards people who are given no
> choice int he screen reader market but to have Jaws. Who unwittingly are
> being hand held through their computer use. Yes they are getting the job
> done but at a price. I see Jaws as a dying product, who's code is getting
> bigger and bulkier with patch over patch. Anyone remember Hal?
>
> Dolphin wisely re-wrote their software from scratch and it's clawing it's
> way back.
>
> I believe that Jaws will no longer be in production in about ten years
> time
> and I feel anger and sorrow for alot of people who will be left in the
> lurch.
>
> From the little experience I've had with Window Eye's users Vs Jaws users
> it
> appears they are generally more compitent in use of their computer and in
> perticular new applications. They have a less reliance on scripts. Which
> are powerful but which alot of times hide the user from true use of their
> computer. This can cause bad habit's to form and can leave them looking
> at
> the same screen very differently to a sighted peer. Awkward and
> frustrating
> quite alot of the time.
>
> A long standing Jaws script that I truly believe is awful is it's system
> tray call. I do not know the in's and outs of how this works but I'm
> assuming it's putting it's own representation of the system tray into a
> virtual buffer. It misses out quite a few icons in the system tray and is
> not updated as the system tray is updated. This is one of the reasons why
> it shows up alot quicker than the Window Eye's system tray. Window Eye's
> labels each graphic in th esystem tray then displays them ina Window.
>
> Anyone right now try a demo of Window Eye's and you'll see at least one
> more
> icon in your system tray than you did with Jaws.
>
> This is a small point but a fundemental one.
>
> I set up a list called Jaws Aholics. A tongue in cheek name for a list
> aimed at people trying to switch from Jaws to Windoweye's but who had
> common
> problems.
>
> I had a wealth of computer problems myself and have been kept busy by
> University and the like so haven't been able to give the list as much
> attention as I might have a year or so back.
>
> There was lots of problems that kept appearing on their that seemed common
> to all.
>
> I've would like to have included a first thoughts email I wrote to the
> list
> below to demonstrate some of my own and others initial experiences with
> Window Eye's.
>
> ......Well I wanted to include it but I seemed to have deleted it!
>
> Carol or Ray or anyone else that has this could you please forward it back
> to me?
>
> Sorry about that,
>
>
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> Ôà
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Booth" <bp.booth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:19 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>
>
> Hi Barry,
>
> Your point on operating systems being a slightly different animal is well
> made, though I dare say a lot of Apple Mac users would strongly disagree
> with you. I know that because Windows is by far the most used OS it is a
> much greater target for hackers, but I think most people would agree that
> from a purely security point of view, Mac OS is way ahead.
>
> I also agree with your point about self-education, but I feel therein lies
> the crux of the problem.
>
> Most blind people, myself included, are on a fixed and relatively low
> income. Once we've spent what to us is a great deal of money on a screen
> reader, we can't afford, nor get reasonable access to, the training needed
> to get the most out of what is essentially an extremely powerful piece of
> software. So we sit down and RTFM and get by the best we can. Commendably,
> some people reach a very high level of competence, but I suspect the
> majority are left floundering.
>
> I know from some of the contributions that you have made to this list that
> this is not the case for you, and I know that you are indeed very computer
> savvy, but sadly, without quality training, this is not true for the
> majority.
>
> Whenever a new version of JAWS is released, this list and the JAWS UK list
> is flooded with complaints. The majority of these are sorted by some very
> good and competent people, who advise the people what changes to make in
> JAWS to sort the problem. What I'm trying to say here is that a lot of the
> time, JAWS is not the problem, but a lack of understanding for the reasons
> outlined above.
>
> If your opinion of JAWS 8 is that it is crap, then I sincerely respect
> that.
> I haven't downloaded it yet, so can't comment. And I have the utmost
> respect
> and admiration for any blind person trying to get by in what is basically
> a
> graphical environment which was basically designed to exclude them. Which
> is
> probably why I fiercely - and probably sometimes over-zealously - jump to
> the defence of products like JAWS, which at least gives us all a good
> level
> of access to this technology.
>
> Apologies to all for such a long post.
>
> God bless FS, you know where to send the cheque!
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dj Paddy" <mygroups@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:41 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>
>
>> You're never going to get an OS without bugs.
>>
>> XP was a disaster when it was released and right up to SP2. I think
>> Microsoft would even admit they messed up.
>>
>> Vista has had a lot more work done to it, and it has been tested more at
>> hacker conventions.
>>
>> It's not always the manufacturers fault an OS is unstable btw. What
>> about
>> all the people who don't use AV or keep it up to date, firewalls, don't
>> implament privacy policy's don't educate themselves beyond point and
>> click
>> and chat rooms?
>>
>> Ðà
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Booth" <bp.booth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 10:48 PM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>>
>>
>> Hi Barry,
>>
>> How old is Windows XP now? How many critical updates are Microsoft still
>> putting out each month?
>>
>> Should we have stayed with Windows 98 till all the bugs were ironed out?
>>
>> Seems to me like FS is doing quite a good job by comparison, and probably
>> on
>> about a hundredth of the budget.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Brian.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dj Paddy" <mygroups@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:25 PM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>>
>>
>>> Vista will be out January 30.
>>>
>>> The Gold Disc was released on November 8, and the MSDN guys and
>>> Corporate
>>> customers will have it if not now then by the end of this month.
>>>
>>> The main reason January 30 is set for consumers is because of driver
>>> compatibilitys with current hardware. To give the hardware vendors a
>>> window
>>> to update their drivers.
>>>
>>> My reason for calling it a disaster is that it's not moving forward.
>>> It's
>>> not adding any real, everyday functionality, I didnt' see anything about
>>> Office 2007, SAPI Alia's?
>>>
>>> coem on. Able to switch the voice ont he fly when reading text?
>>>
>>> That's not screen and application access, that's just a bit of fancy
>>> reading
>>> scripting.
>>>
>>> I to was once int he comfort zone of Jaws and occasionally go back.
>>> Old
>>> habits die hard.
>>>
>>> Dj Paddy
>>> Ôà
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James O'Dell" <jamesodell@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 5:38 PM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>>>
>>>
>>> Fs haven't committed to making this upgrade vista-compatible, but then
>>> at
>>> the moment we don't know when vista will be released yet, so that seems
>>> reasonable enough to me. I wonder what level of access to Vista WE
>>> users
>>> will get for what they have already paid? JAWS has done a great job for
>>> me
>>> for the last nine years, I agree that WE is catching up, and is probably
>>> ahead in terms of its user interface being far simpler etc, but I see no
>>> reason for calling the latest version of JAWS a "disaster".
>>>
>>> ali, what specific problems are you having with JAWS 8?
>>>
>>> James
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dj Paddy" <mygroups@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 4:30 PM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>>>
>>>
>>>> Windoweye's is definitly a different animal and I get frustrated when i
>>>> don't know how to perform various reading tasks and I just need to get
>>>> the
>>>> job done.
>>>>
>>>> However, i feel Windoweye's is the wisest route to go.
>>>>
>>>> I will spare you all a rant on Jaws. My comments speak for themselves
>>>> on
>>>> my
>>>> previous message.
>>>>
>>>> Dj paddy
>>>> Ôà
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Andrew Hodgson" <andrew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 4:23 PM
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I like most people am staying away from Jaws 8 and am migrating to
>>>> WindowEyes as much as possible. I am still falling back to the jaws
>>>> keystrokes quite a bit, but am getting there.
>>>>
>>>> Why they released version 8 days after releasing the 7.10 update was a
>>>> mystery - they had precious time to do more tests on it, plus make
>>>> version
>>>> 8
>>>> a Vista compatible upgrade!
>>>>
>>>> Andrew.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Dj Paddy
>>>> Sent: Mon 20/11/2006 16:20
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>>>>
>>>> This is shocking.
>>>>
>>>> I've just been reading the latest disaster and can not believe somebody
>>>> is
>>>> honestly going to pay for this.
>>>>
>>>> This thing isn't even supporting Vista for goodness sake!
>>>>
>>>> And what is all that SAPI Alia's stuff about in say all?
>>>>
>>>> OMG, that's a new feature?
>>>>
>>>> More and more nonsense!
>>>>
>>>> I'm raging because, I like many wasted my money on this rubbish for
>>>> years!
>>>>
>>>> I'm disgusted because, many still will! Also rehab agency's and that
>>>> whole
>>>> area will thrust this product on unsuspecting souls.
>>>>
>>>> Note: this is a consumers viewpoint and I think it's utter pooh.
>>>> Barry
>>>> Ôà
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:39 PM
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Jaws V 8.0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew, for details of JAWS 8 go to:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_products/software_jaws80fea.asp#OS
>>>>
>>>> From Ray
>>>> I can be contacted off-list at:
>>>> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
>>>> Of andrew shipp
>>>>
>>>> Hi All, What are the benefits of upgrading to Jaws V 8.0?
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Shipp
>>>>
>>>> Located Northampton Northamptonshire UK
>>>>
>>>> Home phone...+44]0,1604 517007
>>>>
>>>> Mobile 07983598287
>>>> Skype name...andyshipp55
>>>>
>>>> Ham callsign M 0 C E G
>>>> Echolink node 220344
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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