[access-uk] Re: Really good, accessible web sites.

  • From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:07:49 +0100

Hi Tink,

I think I am going to disagree with you, accessibility is subjective.  If
you try a web site with one screen reader, and it isn't accessible, does
that make it inaccessible?  Only for that person using that screen reader.
If you then find another screen reader renders it perfectly accessible to
that same user, after training, for example, does that suddenly make that
web site accessible?  Accessibility is as subjective as usability in my
view.

All the best
--
Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer users.
Telephone Voice:  +44(0)1438 742286, Fax/BBS:  +44(0)1438 759589
mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938, 
Email:  Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk  

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Tink Watson
Sent: 31 August 2005 20:11
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Really good, accessible web sites.

DJ,

        Good question. I'll measure each site against the Web Content
Accessibility Guidelines from the W3C, but will also take into account how
each site feels to use in practical terms.

        I should stress that I won't be writing the piece for In Touch, but
am just conducting some investigations for one of their team for a piece
ther hoping to do later this Autumn. I'll recommend that care is taken to
keep everything in perspective, but I know they are an experienced team. The
In Touch team member I'm working for is also visually impaired, so again
there is good knowledge there.

        I'm going to disagree with the suggestion that accessibility is
subjective though. *Smile.

        Ensuring that everyone has access to something is objective, the
subjective part is it's usability.

        It's a question of where the responsibility lies. I believe that it
is the responsibility of the site owner to ensure that it is as accessible
and usable as possible. It is the responsibility of the user to ensure they
have the right skills and technology to use it.

        I don't want to wade into discussions about the availability and
cost of assisstive technology, that's not what I'm meaning. I'm thinking
more along the lines of motorways only being accessible if you have a car
and you are licenced to drive it.

        Accessibility is about making sure someone, anyone, can access
information. Usability is about how easy that information is to access and
that's where it becomes truly subjective. It's one of the reasons why there
is so little in the way of guidelines for usability, although the WCAG
metnioned above do sway a little in that direction as you near the Priority
3 level checkpoints.

        The end goal of what I'm doing now, is to produce some information
about sites that have special offers online, but not available over the
phone or in person, Sites that are accessible and easy to use, Companies
that make special offers or discounts to people with disabilities, in fact
anything that focuses on the whole area of disability, web sites, iscounts
and so forth.

        Tink.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Dj Paddy
Sent: 31 August 2005 15:07
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Really good, accessible web sites.

Hi Tink.

How will you determine what is a, "Accessible", web site?

I am not wanting to be argumentative here.  smiles

Will you refer to W3C?

I hope that in any conclusion and/or opening it is stressed that,
"Accessible", is still a subjective term.  And that lack of knowledge, (I
don't personally believe training is always the answer , although this is
something that can help but I don't believe it's called for as much as it's
suggested)  Bottom line in tech support mainstream or otherwise the end user
is allot more at fault than the site in this case.  Often due to them not
having the skills for whatever reason to use their adaptive/mainstream and
general operating system to it' sfull capacity to gain access.

OK, now I've made those big sweeping remarks I should include a website or
few I suppose?

Although I don't think there's many sites that are inaccessible in their
entirety.

N'ways why not include

www.thinkgeek.com

www.paypal.co.uk

www.google.com (.co.uk)

My hosting company

www.dhosting.co.uk

The guys even got keyboard shortcuts on there.

www.ebay.co.uk

Who actually have buttons you can hit on to have standard web forms on
instead of Java.  But who have no audio authentication system in place but
paypal that they push and partner with do?

Anyways it's a place I spent a small fortune on over the past few weeks and
was quite miffed that I had to get a mate to change my email address for me
because of the graphical auth system.

I could go on....

You may wish to look at the links on Tom's site whitestick.co.uk and even
the favourites page on jfwlite as well.

Dj Paddy
"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, It is by the beans of Java
that thoughts acquire speed, The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes
a warning, It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."
-- Popular Usenet Sig
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tink Watson" <tink@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Access UK" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Vi Gen Access" 
<vi-genaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Really good, accessible web sites.


> Good afternoon,
>
>    Continuing with my research on behalf of Radio 4's In Touch 
> program, I'm hoping you can help with recommendations for really good 
> accessible web sites.
>
>    I know that a perfectly accessible and usable web site is still 
> something of a rarity, but certainly in my own experience, there are 
> shops

> online where I can carry out my shopping without too much grief.
>
>    If anyone can recommend a web site from the following categories 
> that is easy to use, that would be great:
>
> Travel
> CD's etc
> Food Supermarkets
> Finance,Insurance
> Entertainment
>
>
>    The idea is to praise those companies who appear to be making an 
> effort

> or who have taken steps in the right direction.
>
>    Please reply off list to tink@xxxxxxxxxx or on list if you feel 
> others would benefit from sharing your recommendations.
>
> Thanks,
> Tink.
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.tink.co.uk/
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