Regarding Jim's comments about the packs or materials produced by the RNIB, I'm afraid its a fact of life now that charities, who think of themselves as 'businesses' produce such material with an eye to customers who can pay more than an individual, and the price is probably set with such institutional customers in mind. If I'm right in this assertion, then maybe they wouldn't be too keen on supplying individuals for fear they'd share this resource around and so deprive RNIB of income. It may be that a certain amount of support goes with such packs, I don't know really, but the thing I think is that we're not really the 'customer'; it is the colleges who are seen as having money to spare who are the target group. As for adapting courses, not sure where you draw the line here. Living, as we do, in a very visual world the standard materials for courses concentrate very much on use of the mouse, and visual demonstrations of that. Not impossible, of course, for screen reader users, but keyboard commands, where they're available, are avoided almost like the plague, for fear of intimidating people with all those key presses. I think what I'd like to see is a parallel mention of achieving tasks with the keyboard, at least regarding Windows keyboard commands, just as, ideally speaking, all applications should accomodate such options. Maybe though a bit out of my depth here as I haven't actually experienced trying to do any of these courses, but it does interest me. Certainly, some one to one work would be appropriate in group situations, I'd have thought. My impression of what my sister does when she goes to ECDL sessions is that she's left very much to get on with it by herself. Cheers, From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Jackie Cairns Yeah I bet they are Jim. I would only ever embark on such a course if I was tied down kicking and screaming (smile.), but good luck if you manage it. Whenever I hear of an institution saying they are putting together a package of materials to make a course accessible, I hear an alarm bell in my head that says oh no, not tampering with the real thing are you? That will make the qualification really pretty pointless if it is adapted too much. Local colleges try doing it all the time, and I must admit I was having none of that in my time there. It was either working with the tools I had to complete it in my own right or not at all. Work-arounds are acceptable, but not revamping the course altogether. Anyway good luck. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim mcauslan" <axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl > Hi Jackie, > I've been talking to some folk at RNIB Loughborough college who have put > together a package of learning materials which cover clait, clait plus > and ecdl. These learning materials and delivery system have been put > together so that vi peple can complete these courses independently, > however the cost comes in at £1000. My local college are balking at the > price. If I could get funding for it, I would buy it for myself and give > it a go but that doesn't look likely. > > > Jim McAuslan from sunny Findhorn > Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open > T 01309-690-124 > M 07875-670-833 > e mail > axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Skype jmca011 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jackie Cairns" <cairnsplace@xxxxxxx> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:57 AM > Subject: [access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl > > >> Jim and Ray, I thought many moons ago that Dorton College did one of >> these courses which was designed with us in mind. But that was a long >> time ago, and I've never ever heard anything positive from a blind >> perspective about doing one since. It makes me kind of smile to think of >> local colleges taking it on for someone with some or no sight. I gave my >> establishment the run-around doing journalism, and that brought up >> challenges at every single turn, (grin.) >> >> Would BCAB know? >> >> Jackie >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "jim mcauslan" <axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:37 AM >> Subject: [access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl >> >> >>> Hi Ray, >>> >>> What surprises me is that the institution that produces ecdl modules >>> hasn't been inundated with complaints from vi users and legal notices >>> from whoever enforces the DDA legislation. >>> >>> Jim McAuslan from sunny Findhorn >>> Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open >>> T 01309-690-124 >>> M 07875-670-833 >>> e mail >>> axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Skype jmca011 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:25 AM >>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: d i y ecdl >>> >>> >>>> Jim, probably not. We've had at least one person here say that she >>>> found the ECDLcourse local to her was not a viable option. >>>> >>>> This said, I've seen one or two on other lists mention they've done >>>> it, but I suspect they may have had a bit of useful sight. >>>> >>>> Must say that what I've seen of the modules my sister is doing - >>>> (she's notVI) suggest to me that the web based stuff at least isn't >>>> really doable. Seem to recall it uses a lot of flash stuff, and that >>>> seems to be very nearly a no go area. >>>> >>>> Hope you get some more positive feedback and comments than I'm giving >>>> out here. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> From Ray >>>> I can be contacted off-list at: >>>> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> jim mcauslan >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi List, >>>> >>>> Is there such a thing as a totally doable ecdl for those of us with no >>>> sight >>>> and who want to do it without sighted assistance? If there is where >>>> can I, >>>> or my local college, find it? If there isn't then why and what can >>>> the >>>> blind community do about it? >>>> >>>> Jim McAuslan from sunny Findhorn >>>> Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open >>>> T 01309-690-124 >>>> M 07875-670-833 >>>> e mail >>>> axdr89@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Skype jmca011 ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq