Hi James,
For PBX and thermoplastic binders, silane grafting and post crosslinking has
been shown to be effective in improving aging characteristics. Upon
crosslinking, the melt index is also close to zero. See USPTO 6,740,180.
Best.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x1004 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
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From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
J P
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 9:34 AM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AR] Re: Solid motor storage life (was Re: Re: Homemade Astronauts on
Tv)
Jim, many thanks for that advice!
Unfortunately, where I work now doesn't have good access to a library. The
university I used to work at mayhave access to some of the old AIAA/JANNAF, and
I get back there occasionally since I still work on a few projects with them,
and get asked to give guest lectures sometimes. So I may be able to find
something there. I'll also look into the other missile systems you mention.
Yes, the tactical missile motor compositions that use RDX or HMX are closer to
my PBX compositions, however my understanding from the literature that I have
read is that the predominant mechanisms of ageing are (i) plasticiser loss,
and/or (ii) oxidation of the PU binder (most likely, IMO, probably a
combination of both). Ageing of the nitramines isn't usually a factor in
ageing of the composition (as I understand - I may be completely wrong!). In
fact we just pulled some bombs loaded in PBXN-109 (RDX, Al, HTPB-IPDI, DOA),
after 15 years in the magazines, and the RDX doesn't appear to have aged at
all. The mech props of the PU though have changed - it has become
significantly stiffer, less flexible. More or less what we expected, but it is
nice to actually get our hands on the samples and confirm it!
Annex C to AOP-46 has an interesting discussion that uses the Arrhenius
equation to relate accelerated ageing studies to long-term storage life, which
(if this kind of thing interests you) you may find useful, if you weren't
already aware of it. It's only really applicable to constant temperature
ageing/storage though, applying it when the temperatures are cycled is a little
trickier...
Thanks again,
James
On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 17:57, Jim Rosson
<jmrosson@xxxxxxx<mailto:jmrosson@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
James:
You want solid propellant service life data? I might be able to help:
See if you get your hands on a copy of text book: Volume 170 of Progress in
Astronautics and Aeronautics, title Tactical Missile Propulsion. Chapter 5 has
treatise on service life predictions .vs actual.
Can also find articles in old AIAA/JANNAF journals from many rocket/missile
programs service life studies. Most of these antique publications are not
online, even if you are member of organization; so might need to visit a decent
science tech college library to find them. Look for dedicated studies on
Polaris, Minuteman, Titan, and Shuttle SRB solid booster motors. These studies
usually detail the polymer blend, oxidizers, and additives.
The amateur community focus is on "safer" HTPB polymer system, and leave the
DOT 1.1 materials to experts. Regardless, Tactical missiles often use HMX/RDX
modifiers that might be more interesting to you? Couple current missile
programs like Aim-9 Sidewinder and AIM-120 AMRAAM; have published service life
studies. Couple of vehicles in the Nike missile
project<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Nike> had several service life
studies published. There are also some NATO member and other international
service life reports on non-US missile systems. These are all hiding in same
old AIAA/JANNAF periodicals. Some of newer declassified articles published
since 2000 can be found online.
Another source of solid propellant service life data is gas generators used in
automotive airbags, and aircraft exit slide inflation. They used different
oxidizers to lower flame temperatures, but they use polymer binders that can be
useful comparison. Have to hunt around the automotive/aircraft tech journals
for the papers, but they have published extensive measured .vs. predicted
service life studies at command of US federal gubermint and NHTSA/FMVSS
regulations.
Cheers!
Jim
On November 29, 2021 at 8:34 AM J P
<james.padfield@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:james.padfield@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Anthony,
This was a composite HTPB/AP propellant? Can you tell me any details (however
vague) on the formulation? I ask because I work with cast-cure PBX explosives,
which of course generally have very similar compositions to cast composite
rocket propellants, and I am forever being asked ( by customers, by our
salesmen and programme managers) about upper and lower storage temps, storage
lives, etc. etc.! And any evidence, even anecdotal, is always interesting (to
me at least!).
Thanks,
James
On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 01:06, Anthony Cesaroni
<anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Bill
They conducted their 10th anniversary flight with a surplus 100K Lb./sec.
booster we had built. I was not involved with the launch. The motor had been in
non-climate controlled storage in NM for 8 years so it had be cycled from below
freezing to over 100 F all that time. It was a good way to confirm the
published storage and age limits of the system. The booster was paid for anyway
and had all the required approvals but most importantly, the crew were well
qualified on the system and operations. It went to space without a glitch.
Best.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x1004 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> On Behalf
Of William Claybaugh
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 6:48 PM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AR] Re: Homemade Astronauts on Tv
Anthony:
Only morally, spiritually, and emotionally.
When Jim has that beer w/ Ken, we should buy.
Bill
On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 4:44 PM Anthony Cesaroni
<anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Jim,
Was someone injured participating in CSXT?
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x1004 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> On Behalf
Of JAMES ROSSON
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 5:36 PM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AR] Re: Homemade Astronauts on Tv
On November 26, 2021 at 8:51 PM Anthony Cesaroni
<anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: We get contacted by
some of these production companies asking to us donate or sell them rocket
motors and as a general rule, we respectfully decline.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
LOL Anyone who makes commercial motor gets asked to donate (and refuses the
2nd time).
Ever notice how you don't see the same folks launching rockets in more than one
show? The production companies making rocket shows only survive because folks
are willing to pay their own way to be a TV star.
IMHO - Being involved in a rocket TV show is like biting into a bad apple and
being forced to finish it.
If your smart, will NEVER do that again.
On November 26, 2021 at 8:28 PM roxanna Mason
<rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I wouldn't waste my time watching that show, it gives amateurs an undeserved
bad reputation.
Ken
My condolences on your experience Ken. If it is any consolation, you are not
alone?
Behind the scenes history of CSXT activities are so ludicrous; the trail of
injured souls would read like a bad fiction novel, if anyone dared publish it.
In spirit of "If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit next to me."
Let's met at the bar sometime soon? :-)
+1 Most all TV shows "gives amateurs an undeserved bad reputation".
Sigh.....