Hi Miriam,
First of all, I find these exchanges most stimulating and thought
provoking but I rather less consider them as polemics so please accept
my comments in the good spirit that they are intended, just as yours
are. I tend to largely agree with you on your description of
exceptionalism, the left of which in the United States, is certainly
not immune. The son of an immigrant to this country, I grew up with a
very healthy skepticism about all of this American patriotic dribble
no matter where it came from. The emotional reaction that lots of
folks feel when hearing the Star Spangled Banner or the Pledge of
Allegiance affects me much as a Ku Klux Klan rally might someone who
is non-Anglo. I once attended a union rally in Des Moines, Iowa
against Bridgestone Firestone with many Asian workers among them when
a union official characterized the company leaders as "slant-eyed" so
and so. It felt to me as much like a Klan rally as I had ever before
experienced, not having attended one other than as a
counter-protester. The union ultimately had to issue an apology after
quite a lot of push-back. On the other hand, this is a country with
plenty of
sophisticated people and views, yourself certainly among them. This is
where I make a conscious distinction between what folks on this list
think or in any workplace you might find anywhere where such
conversations take place and what we are force fed to believe that
what is published in the bourgeois press of any color is
representative of who we are and what we believe. American
exceptionalism is clearly an imperialist design that many, who don't
bother to engage in independent thought or research of their own,
unfortunately swallow. What I find heart braking is how so many of
"us" consider the rest of "us" to be so ignorant and clueless; for
that is the crystal clear message that we are all supposed to
internalize in just about anything we might read. My experience, not
unlike on this very list, is that we are thoughtful and capable human
beings that don't simply accept everything that is fed to us from
their capitalist propaganda machines. To set the record straight, when
discussing China's number of children policies, these are not
essentially cultural but political questions. This policy was not in
place in the 1950s, as was pointed out earlier. Furthermore, as an
internationalist, myself, what is good for the workers and farmers in
China or anywhere else for that matter, is good for workers and
farmers here in the good ole USA. Conversely, what is harmful to women
and families in China or anywhere else is harmful to women and
families everywhere. I think you and I share a common sensitivity to
parochial, narrow nationalist attitudes from whatever thought
tradition. The struggle against these backward attitudes is the task
of the victorious internationalist proletariat. Are they up to the
task? This has been the question historically faced by revolutionists
from Lenin to Castro.
On 6/29/21, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Maurice,
I don't even know how to even think about such a position. Since almost
everyone in America ended up wittingly or unwittingly collaborating with
German Fascists during the second world war. I don't think that ignoring
historical realities or cultural differences is the same as taking an
internationalist approach. One can have a view of the world, like, for
example, the Roman Catholic Church, and believe that one's view is
international. After all, doesn't the Church believe that it's beliefs and
value system applies internationally? So if One applies one's economic and
political view in the same manner, to everyone, is that international? I can
already hear Roger telling me that Marxist theory is science. But social
science is not equivalent to the physical sciences.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Maurice Peret
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 2:17 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Beijing control over family size is attack on
women
Perhaps, Miriam, you missed or chose to ignore my point. Members of the SWP
are not "American leftists" by any definition. In fact, a consistent reading
of The Militant reveals that much of its fire is targeted at the so called
left, which includes those who loosely proclaim themselves "Socialists,"
outfits such as the Democratic Socialists of America who draw their legacy
from the traitors and outright collaborators with the German and other
European fascists.
That's where reform gets you. The Militant takes a decidedly
internationalist worldview on any subject it covers. I don't, by the way,
necessarily agree with or completely accept all of the editorial
perspectives published in the Militant but by in large, it is a refreshing
departure from the tired old liberal and progressive gang.
On 6/29/21, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Perhaps not. But I think that The Militant just doesn't get China. But
most American leftists don't. The next article that I came upon
coincidentally, and posted to the list, I think, verifies my point of
view.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
(Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:47 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Beijing control over family size is
attack on women
The Militant has pretty much always been against the one child policy,
but I don't think they had it back in the fifties.
___
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at through
disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing something
were so! Your patient's wish to be in God's hands is not truth. It is
simply a child's wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not to die, a
wish for the eveastingly bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'!
Evolutionary theory scientifically demonstrates God's
redundancy—though Darwin himself had not the courage to follow his
evidence to its true conclusion. Surely, you must realize that we
created God, and that all of us together now have killed him.” ― Irvin
D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept On 6/29/2021 1:17 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Very interesting. I remember when the anti Communist propaganda
focused on the one child policy and forced abortions in China back in
the 50's and early 60's. I wonder what The Militant was saying then?
The fact is that China functions with very different values than
American leftists, whatever American leftists think, or thought in
the past. It is a very old civilization with a huge population and
ever since the Communists have taken power, the goal has been to have
a planned economy so that starvation would be eliminated. Personal
freedom and Democracy were never the plan. Neither was conquering
other countries. China has always concentrated on itself. If you
visit China, and I have, the social atmosphere is totally different
than it is in the west. It is also obvious that the Chinese are
extremely competent at whatever it is they choose to do. But from the
minute you step off the plane, you know that you are in a controlled
environment.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 10:41 AM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Beijing control over family size is attack
on women
Beijing control over family size is attack on women
https://themilitant.com/2021/06/26/beijing-control-over-family-size-i
s-attack-on-women/
BY SETH GALINSKY
Vol. 85/No. 26
July 5, 2021
Worried that its population is aging and there won’t be enough young
workers to exploit to maximize state profits, the Chinese government
announced last month that it was raising the limit on the number of
children a family is allowed to three and began a propaganda campaign
to encourage more childbirth. Now Beijing officials are considering
dropping all restrictions on larger families.
The Chinese rulers fear that having a shrinking and aging population
is a barrier to challenging Washington for greater economic and
political influence.
Government interference in the personal decisions of when, if and how
many children a woman has is reactionary. These decisions should be
in her hands alone in conjunction with her family. To make that
possible it is necessary to fight for access to family planning,
including aid in conceiving a child if needed and the right to safe and
secure abortion.
At the beginning of the 1970s the Maoist regime in Beijing pressured
women to have fewer children. In 1979 government bureaucrats imposed
a general cap of one child per woman. Those who violated the law had
to pay huge fines or were forced to have abortions.
At the end of 2015, with Chinese women averaging only 1.05 children,
the second lowest in the world, Beijing raised the cap to two. That
did little to increase the birthrate. In China, just like in the
U.S., the U.K., France and other countries, birthrates have been
declining for years.
The decline in workers’ real wages, the rise in the cost of living
and lack of child care, a result of the bosses foisting the
capitalist crisis on the backs of working people, are also key to the
decline in family formation worldwide. Even in the United States, the
strongest imperialist power, many young workers today can’t earn
enough to live on their own, so they put off having children.
An affordable family is even harder to establish in China with low
wages, sky-high rents and mortgages, and meager pensions. Child care
as well as nursing homes and other facilities for seniors are further
out of reach for working people there than in the U.S. And it’s women
who face the biggest burden, with the responsibility for children and
the elderly falling almost entirely on the family.
When Xinhua News in China published the results of a poll that asked
22,000 people, “Are you ready for the three-child policy?” Twenty
thousand chose, “I won’t consider it at all.” The poll was quickly
deleted from the agency’s website.
Working-age couples in China often have to take care of “two sets of
parents who don’t have much income for savings or pension plans if
any, plus any kids they already have,” reports Al Jazeera.
While the rulers in Beijing are trying to get women from the majority
Han population to have more babies, they subject women among the
mostly Muslim Uighur people in the Northwest to strict birth control
policies.
Long discriminated against and persecuted by Beijing, Uighurs often
face forced sterilization and abortions, reports The Associated Press.
This goes hand in hand with Beijing’s systematic detention of
hundreds of thousands of Uighurs in forced labor camps.
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Okay, thanks
--
Precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find
yourself at war with your society.
-James Baldwin
Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed
until it is faced.
-James Baldwin
********************
Maurice Peret
MOBILE/TEXT: 804.928.4015
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