He sees himself as a Social Democrat. You insist that people be very precise
in their language and that they use definitions that are acceptable to you.
For example, you don't like the way in which the term, politically correct,
is used because from what you know about the history of its useage, people
are using it incorrectly. But people just don't conform to our personal
requirements for them and language is not static. It is ever changing. I
think it is a waste of time and energy to focus on all the misuse of
language that goes on continually. It's more helpful to try to figure out
what people are trying to say and why they're trying to say it.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 11:42 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Both Bernie and Johnny promulgate falsehoods.
I am not even suggesting that he use traditional socialist language or that
he even promote socialism. That is, I am not suggesting that he do that
unless he becomes a socialist. I am only suggesting that he be honest and
stop calling himself a socialist. That would meet his audiences where they
are a lot better. As much as I would like for him to be a socialist he is
not one. He may as well admit that he is a liberal and stop misleading
people.
On 10/29/2015 9:34 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Well, I certainly can't support someone saying that a policesocialist language to make these points. He uses language to which he thinks
department is socialism, and I have to take the word of the author
that Sanders actually said that since I didn't hear the speech. But if
he did, it's an example of imprecise language. I assume that if he
said it, he was attempting to point out that there are several
government programs which exist to benefit society as a whole. If I
remember correctly, the article said that he also mentioned social
security as another example. I'm sure that he is aware that these are
not examples of socialism. I am equally sure that he was attempting to
get his audience to consider that programs which are run by the
government are not, by definition, bad. There's an old social work
concept which, I'm sure is used in community organizing, as well as in
casework. It is, Start where the client is. Bernie is talking to
audiences who have been told for years, often by Democrats like Bill
Clinton, that big government is bad. If you want to be elected, you
don't talk socialist theory to people who think that private
enterprise does everything better than government. I posted a separate
article which you may have noticed by now, in which Sanders uses the
statement of a Muslim student at George Mason University as a starting
point to begin to explain how the ruling class uses race, religion,
and sexual orientation to separate the workers so that the workers
will be distracted from organizing. But he doesn't use traditional
socialism.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 8:24 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Both Bernie and Johnny promulgate falsehoods.
I remember watching a gubernatorial candidates debate on television
for an earlier election. The three candidates on stage were Republican
John Raese, Democrat Joe Manchin - now U.S. senator from West Virginia
- and Mountain Party candidate Jessie Johnson. The question of
Obamacare came up and John Raese sneeringly denounced it because it was
Manchin did not respond. It may have been tacitly, but he effectivelywhat socialism is or else is lying to you. So is Sanders an ignoramus or a
endorsed Raese's position. Jessie Johnson, on the other hand, said
that it seemed to him that a law that mandated that people buy
insurance from private insurance companies was capitalism on steroids.
I moaned at him because he just stopped and left it at that. Oh how I
wished that I had been on that stage. I would have gone on to say the
following. Not only is Obamacare capitalism on steroids, but anyone
who tries to tell you that it is socialism either does not have the
slightest idea of what socialism is or else is flat out lying to you.
Which are you, Mr. Raese, an ignoramus or a liar? Alas, I was not
there and Jessie Johnson did not have the nerve to break with his oh
so polite attitude to call out the right-wing jerk. Raese was allowed
to continue with his superior attitude. Anyway, though, when Bernard
Sanders tells you that the police force is an example of socialism
just how is that so different from calling Obamacare socialism. Either
way you are hearing someone who either does not have the slightest idea of
Either way, whether it is John Raese or Bernard Sanders, they are both
attacking socialism.