Roger, I have heard from some right leaning folks that it was actually the
other way around. They claim that right wing folks voted for Sanders in
democratic primaries just to "bloody up" Clinton. Not sure if there is any
truth to that but I do know Limbaugh has been telling his listeners to do that
for years.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 8:13 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE:
[blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Why working people shouldn’t join the
liberals’ impeachment crusade
I suppose you are correct in that a lot of people who voted for Sanders went on
to vote for Trump. Here in West Virginia Sanders utterly trounced Hillary in
the primary. I seem to recall that she only got twenty something percent of the
vote. Then in the general election Trump won sixty-five percent of the vote.
The math tells us that very large proportions of Sanders voters had to have
defected to Trump. And I also remember this. The Militant reported that the
Socialist Workers Party campaigned outside of both Sanders rallies and Trump
rallies and got an equally friendly reception from both crowds.
---
David Hume
“ In our reasonings concerning matter of fact, there are all imaginable degrees
of assurance, from the highest certainty to the lowest species of moral
evidence. A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume,
On 11/12/2019 5:24 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
I think that some of them elected him because the Democrats failed so badly
in doing anything for poor and working class people. Many of the people who
voted for him, had previously voted for Obama. Obama sold them out. I've read
some books about his presidency and this new book, We've Got People, and all
of the books say what I thought I was observing when he was President. He
promised hope and change, but he basically served the donor class. If the
Democrats explained clearly, what Trump was doing, I think people would
understand. If the Democrats hadn't screwed Bernie Sanders and allowed him to
win the nomination, Trump wouldn't be President. So many of the people who
voted for Sanders in the primary, ended up voting for Trump. Trump pretended
to be on their side. Bernie really was. When you talk to people about what
they really need, they listen. But no one cares about all of this stuff
regarding withholding military aid and investigating Biden's son.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 4:49 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy]
Why working people shouldn’t join the liberals’ impeachment crusade
Miriam, while I follow your thought process here the problem is that all of
those things you mentioned are why white conservatives elected him in the
first place and it would be political suicide for any party or politician to
try to impeach Trump for any of that.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 2:55 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Why working people
shouldn’t join the liberals’ impeachment crusade
So I see impeachment differently and I have mixed feelings about it.
I accept that we are living in an unfair, degraded corporate system, but here
it is. Given the history and culture of the US and the financial and military
power of the ruling elite, I sincerely doubt that this system will be
overthrown by a peaceful or not so peaceful, socialist revolution. It's more
likely to be taken over by the Fascist Right. However, impeachment is a
recognized means for bringing to justice, a public official who has
completely disregarded the norms and rules of government. From the day he
took office, Trump did that in terms of his implementation of racist
policies, his public statements which incited people to violence, his clear
disrespect for recognized norms and rules, his blatant use of his office to
enrich himself and his family, his installation of family members in
government positions for which they weren't qualified, and his demonstrated
disrespect for a free press. There were his manipulation of funds to pay off
women who might damage his reputation, his use of a private security force in
addition to the secret service, all kinds of stuff. I just don't think that
those things should have been allowed to proceed without immediate moves to
stop him, and that would either be impeachment or removal from office because
of mental incompetence. Neither Republicans nor Democrats would do what
obviously had to be done, because of political reasons. The Democrats chose,
what they thought would be, a more acceptable path, but which was obviously
stupid. Now, it's just too late and politically dumb, and again, the reason
given for impeachment is inadequate.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 1:23 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Why working people shouldn’t join the
liberals’ impeachment crusade
Commenting on the below article. I am so glad that the Militant published
this article making it clear that they do not support Donald Trump in any
way. These articles expressing disdain for the impeachment drive have been
making me very uncomfortable. I could see that they were not expressing
support for Trump, but I was afraid that it was not clear to everyone and I
can't blame Virginia Wilkinson for thinking that the Militant did support
Trump. It really seemed to be coming close to that.
I am not a supporter of impeachment myself. The reasons given here for not
giving impeachment our support are legitimate enough, but in my case I just
don't see it as our fight. It is a question of squabbling among the
bourgeoisie and if Trump is impeached or if Trump is removed from office it
really doesn't effect the rest of us all that much. I don't see that Mike
Pence would be any better than Trump. But having disdain for the impeachment
drive is a far cry from supporting Trump. I can only say that I would really
like the Militant to make that as clear?? in every article about that subject
as it does in this article.
https://themilitant.com/2019/11/09/why-working-people-shouldnt-join-th
e-liberals-impeachment-crusade/
Reply to a reader
Why working people shouldn???t join the liberals??? impeachment
crusade
??By Terry Evans
Vol. 83/No. 42
November 18, 2019
In a letter to the Militant?? reader Virginia Wilkinson says she started
reading the paper for its good labor coverage, but cannot ???sympathize with
your support for Donald Trump, who has shown no signs of genuine support for
working people.???
But the Militant?? has never offered one ounce of support to the president.
For 90 years since it first came out, the Militant?? has never backed any
Democrat, Republican or other capitalist politician. And there is no question
Donald Trump ??? a real estate mogul ??? rules for the propertied class.
The Militant?? campaigned in every 2016 issue for Alyson Kennedy, the
Socialist Workers Party candidate for U.S. president, and urged workers to
break from the two parties of capitalist rule, the Democrats and Republicans,
no matter who they nominated.
The paper???s headline that Wilkinson cites ??? ???Liberals Drive to Oust
Trump Built on Fear of Working Class??? ??? accompanies an article that
explains, ???All wings of the Democratic Party, like Trump and all the
Republicans, defend the interests of the country???s capitalist rulers at
home and stand ready to wield Washington???s military might to advance their
interests abroad.??? And the Militant?? champions battles by labor and all
those oppressed and exploited against the bosses, their politicians and the
government in power that serves them, including Trump???s.
But there are crucial questions for working people in opposing the campaign
of the liberals and their craven media that seek to overturn the 2016
election. Their real target is the working people who voted for Trump, or who
couldn???t bring themselves to vote for any of the bosses???
candidates.
This includes millions of workers Hillary Clinton called ???deplorable,???
who were looking for a change from what successive Democratic and Republican
administrations have done to aid the bosses in their assaults on workers.
These attacks have not let up during the so-called economic recovery that
followed the 2007 financial crisis. Millions were drawn to vote for someone
like Trump, who stood outside the factions of both bourgeois parties, and who
demagogically claimed he would halt the carnage facing working people and
???drain the swamp??? in Washington.
The liberals ??? who have backed the capitalist rulers??? drive to boost
profits whenever they???ve been in office ??? think they???re entitled to
???regulate??? and control the lives of the rest of us, especially those who
don???t vote the way they think we should. Democratic Congressman Al Green
says the reason Trump must be impeached is to prevent people from reelecting
him.
Rising fear of working people
Liberals along with the ruling rich have a rising fear of working people.
They fear us because growing numbers of working people recognize that the
bosses and their parties have no solution to the crisis of their system that
doesn???t involve making workers pay. This has made more workers open to
fighting declining living and working conditions and to discussing an
independent working-class political road forward.
The capitalist rulers fear coming working-class struggles ??? battles in
which our confidence in our own capacities will grow, as we acquire
consciousness of ourselves as a fighting class with interests in common with
other workers worldwide.
The Militant?? tells the truth about the methods used by the liberals in
their witch hunt of the president that are dangerous for the working class.
These include using and praising Washington???s political police, the FBI and
CIA; grand juries and secret star chamber ???hearings???; and hearsay claims
from secret witnesses you have no chance to confront or refute.
All these are features of the capitalist ???justice??? system that???s
regularly used against workers. But in this case it involves an effort to
impeach and indict a capitalist politician who was elected to the presidency.
They???re taking steps to limit the franchise to prevent us ???voting the
wrong way.???
They trample on constitutional protections working people have fought for???
from the Bill of Rights to the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to the U.S.
Constitution conquered in the second American Revolution. These are crucial
to protect our ability to discuss and act in our own class interests without
government disruption. The anti-Trump ???resistance???
sets precedents to be used against fighting workers and opponents of
Washington???s wars as the crisis of capitalism deepens, as the rulers have
done time and time again.
Opposing the liberals??? drive to oust the president can???t be equated with
giving him one iota of political support. Working people have nothing to gain
from relying on the bosses, their parties or their government, and everything
to win by organizing ourselves independently of them to fight for our own
class interests. Jealously guarding our hard-won rights is a cornerstone of
working people???s line of march forward.
In This Issue
Front Page Articles ???Asarco strike deserves support of all workers
???US-Chinese rulers??? rivalry grows despite new trade deal ??????Break from
bosses 2-party system, build a labor party???
???New book ???The Turn to Industry??? boosts fall ???Militant,???
book drive ???Why working people shouldn???t join the liberals???
impeachment crusade ???California blackout, fire show need for workers
control of power companies
Feature Articles ???Iraqi protests grow, demand halt to Tehran???s
interference ???Socialist Workers Party 2020 campaign program
Also In This Issue ???As competition heats up, retail bosses tell workers,
???Speed up???
???DC meeting: ???US hands off Cuba and Venezuela???
???UK election: ???Workers need our own political party???
???Fight continues to keep last abortion clinic in Missouri ???Israel
protest: ???Don???t deport Filipino classmates???
???Courts back two capitalist parties??? ballot monopoly ???After GM
workers settle, workers at Ford debate, vote on new contract ???Fall
Campaign to sell Militant subscriptions and books (week 4)
???Socialist Workers Party Fund Drive (week 4)
Books of the Month ??????Communism is not a doctrine, but a movement???
25, 50 and 75 years ago
Letters
?? Copyright 2019 The Militant?? -?? 306 W. 37th Street, 13th floor
-?? New York, NY 10018?? -?? themilitant@xxxxxxx
Cookies
This site uses cookies to improve your experience. Learn more.
Okay, thank