[jawsscripts] Re: StringArray operator function availability? or lack thereof. thoughts?
- From: Doug Lee <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:29:40 -0400
Part of planning is planning for plan changes. :)
In cabling, pull two or three when you need just one.
In programming, handle all error conditions and unexpected
possibilities, write code that can be expanded, modularize things when
you can, and expect that the first and second way you do something
won't work a year from now.
I know that's all vague, and of course, idealistic, but keeping things
like this in mind is always a good plan.
On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 04:06:20PM -0500, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
I agree with everything that was said about how hard it can be to stick
to a plan. It's my experience though that the most successful long term
projects, and the easiest to support and maintain, are those where a lot
of time is spent on planning, requirements and design. Obviously, it's a
software shop's job to get applications out the door on a schedule and
not generate plans and designs, so there will be lots of pressure to
deviate from the best laid plans of mice and men. However, when these
deviations are understood and taken after careful consideration, the
detrimental effect to the long term success of the project can more
easily be managed. I guess my point is that just because it's hard to do
and isn't always going to be possible doesn't mean you don't try to do
it at all. My experience has been that the worst projects to work on are
where there's little to no effort to have a plan, requirements or a
design and anarchy just leads to code that's impossible to maintain or
work on.
There's also the whole methodology of agile programming for environments
where requirements and designs do change over the course of the project.
My take on agile programming is that it's meant to break the project up
into smaller pieces where the software engineering principles can be
followed for each stage and the transition from stage to stage allows
for a structured way to handle requirements and design changes. Agile
programming doesn't mean you don't have any process or design, which
I've heard some programmers claim.
--
Christopher
chaltain@xxxxxxxxx
On 7/2/2010 10:39 AM, Soronel Haetir wrote:
> Like any other skill it's something that takes effort to develop.
>
> Something else to keep in mind, my experience is that that the plan is
> followed for about 33% of the project and then the customer asks for
> changes (small at first) that whittle away at the ability to follow
> the plan. By the time you reach 75% the plan is only a distant memory
> and new stuff is getting added haphazardly and a lot of praying occurs
> over the source control server.
>
> Detailed planning of that sort is great
> (1) if you're able to do it right (which probably means you've done it
> wrong at least once),
> (2) If the system you're working on has a single job, no matter how
> complicated, that really has no way to expand to handle more tasks
> (think space shuttle control code here)
> or (3) If you are damned lucky, don't expect it to happen again.
>
> On 7/1/10, Geoff Chapman<gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> ah. thanks Don. I'll keep in mind never to join one of these "professional
>> develop shops," of which you speak then!<grin.>
>>
>> I don't seem to be very adept yet, at analysis and pre-coding thought. it
>> evades/eludes me somehow.
>> Don't quite know wy?
>>
>> Still, writing questions to this list somehow helps me to think through my
>> issues better. Jus so's you're all aware, if you can believe it, I don't
>> actually end up posting everything I sit down to post to the list! some
>> things never make it to air, coz by the tkime I've spent xx time writing the
>> whole jolly thing up, my brain has better processed it and I can often,
>> though not always, see at least the semblance of a solution to the problem I
>> couldn't see before writing it all out.
>>
>> Remind me never to get a job as any kind of annalist though eh?<grin.>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Donald Marang"<donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To:<jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:49 PM
>> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: StringArray operator function availability? or
>> lack thereof. thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>>> That is quite normal. That is one reason professional development shops
>>> require lots of thought and analysis before ever writing code.
>>>
>>> Don Marang
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Geoff Chapman"<gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 3:41 AM
>>> To:<jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: [jawsscripts] StringArray operator function availability? or lack
>>> thereof. thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mighty scripters.
>>>>
>>>> Well, since as you're all painfully aware by now,<grin,> I've somehow
>>>> found
>>>> myself jumping into the land of scripting with both feet clad in horridly
>>>> large and ahem, somewhat
>>>> rather smelly army boots, hahaha, anywayz, because of this,
>>>> I've kinda picked right up on usage of the whole new jaws11 array thang.
>>>> I've found them very useful I must say, for getting through a whole bunch
>>>> of
>>>> jobs, but I have couple queeries surrounding them, that I wanted to put
>>>> before you more seasoned scripters/programmers, who might also be up to
>>>> speed on usage of the new Array functions?
>>>>
>>>> But who also have experience in their usage across a wider milieu than
>>>> just
>>>> the jaws scripting language?
>>>> I thought this might give me a more informed platform from which to
>>>> wish/expect from fs, the fulfillment of my inner desires regarding
>>>> arrays,
>>>> and what functions we might one day expect
>>>> to be provided to operate on them.
>>>>
>>>> I'll just mention one today, but, for example, it seems to me that many
>>>> of
>>>> the functions used to operate on plain string variables, of which as you
>>>> know there are many, won't work on the individual slots of stringArray
>>>> variables. This is rather a shame in my view, but for all I know, it's
>>>> normative?
>>>>
>>>> I guess it's maybe understandable, in that they weren't built for arrays.
>>>> And I realize that array's are different animals than plain single
>>>> strings.
>>>> But, I guess my question is, is it reasonable for me to want/expect that
>>>> some day, they might be?
>>>>
>>>> Because, the way things are now, it rather forces one to have to
>>>> learn/adopt
>>>> new strategies/work-arounds, for accomplishing some of the tasks which
>>>> historically would've been performed by specific builtin functions
>>>> designed
>>>> to do the jobs rather elegantly directly on plain string variables, but,
>>>> as
>>>> I say, not on string Arrays.
>>>>
>>>> My case In point today, for example, is, say, usage of the stringIsBlank
>>>> function.
>>>>
>>>> if, for example, I'm needing to grab text from the screen, and store it
>>>> in,
>>>> say 24 slots of a single dimension StringArray.
>>>> But then, I'm wanting to perform functionality akin to what I previously
>>>> would've used StringIsBlank to do, if I'd been using the old simple
>>>> individual string variables.
>>>> Because, I presume, that if I have a line in the midst of a while loop
>>>> cranking through each slot of a global previously declared
>>>> StringArray, something like:
>>>> var
>>>> String MyString,
>>>> int iCount
>>>> ; crank through the loop of the array and perform stuff on each slot
>>>> let iCount = 1
>>>>
>>>> while iCount<= 24 ; the amount of slots I have
>>>> if gsaMyStringArray[iCount]> "" then
>>>> ; do stuff
>>>> else
>>>> Do other stuff
>>>> let iCount = iCount + 1 ; do it for all slots in the Array
>>>> EndIf ; string is reasonably blank check
>>>> EndWhile
>>>>
>>>> this would presumably only flag as true, if there were absolutely no
>>>> space
>>>> or tab characters in that slot of the StringArray. Whereas, if I
>>>> understand
>>>> this correctly, the StringIsBlank function, knows that spaces and Tabs
>>>> are
>>>> not generally spoken output fodda, and so will return true even if the
>>>> string contains those, but no other normatively speakable information?
>>>> Is this correct?
>>>>
>>>> I guess I'm using this practical example, as a template to kinda wanna
>>>> ask
>>>> about this in a kind of generic way, in asking for thoughts about
>>>> potential
>>>> caveats/work-arounds with using Arrays, from those of you with a ton more
>>>> programming experience than me?
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm, I mean, I presume, that I could make the while loop just do a
>>>> little
>>>> bit more work, by doing a let statement on my stringArray slot, to assign
>>>> it
>>>> to a plain stringVariable, just to perform my StringIsBlank check on it.
>>>> hmm.
>>>> Hadn't thought of that before.
>>>> maybe like:
>>>>
>>>> let MyString = gsaMyStringArray[iCount]
>>>> if StringIsBlank (myString) then
>>>>
>>>> but, hmmm, well I guess tha'ts not that hard really eh.
>>>> well is that the preferred/expected work-around in utilizing arrays, that
>>>> one is expected to do? and is perfecdtly reasonable to do?
>>>>
>>>> or might we expect that some more elegant array operations builtins,
>>>> might
>>>> be provided us if asked for, in due time? or am I totaly up a tree and
>>>> need
>>>> my head read for crazy thinking again?
>>>>
>>>> actually in sitting down to write this question, and then actually you
>>>> know,
>>>> having to provide code to elucidate it, I've actually learned something
>>>> today, hmm, again,
>>>> about myself, which I guess I
>>>> share in case it might help other newby scripters.
>>>>
>>>> And actually I have discovered this a couple of times, but, well, I
>>>> somehow
>>>> haven't yet built it into my normative coding toolbox of how to solve
>>>> problems.! for it seems that when I actually have to sit down and explain
>>>> and write out the whole jolly problem or question I'm wanting to ask, and
>>>> try and provide realWorld example code so as you don't all think I'm just
>>>> expecting a total spoonFeedingb job the whole time, Sometimes I actually
>>>> find I can come up with an answer, or, as in this case, that the question
>>>> sounds a whole lot less difficult or annoying to solve, than I first
>>>> thought! hmmm. this is kinda wierd though. Or in learning to program
>>>> land,
>>>> is this kind of thing normative maybe?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks for any further comments/thoughts though that anyone would like to
>>>> add, either to the beginning or end of this lengthy post!
>>>>
>>>> Geoff c.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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--
Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
it was done." --Helen Keller
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