[jawsscripts] p.s. on alternate investigative jaws toolboxes/utilities, was Track Changes in msWord support,

  • From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 03:09:32 +1100

oh PS, please anyone else comment too,
upon their particular experiences/views on this as well. I'm sure it's on
topic enough to fly here. i.e.
Authors of these other jaws investigative toolBoxes, I'm sure I'm not the
only one who'd be interested in hearing your raves about why you put in the
no doubt substantial effort to
create what yu created, and/or what the
competitive toolboxes didn't offer you, that your own offering facilitated,
etc. again, either in content, or design approaches?
Unfortunately I know Jim snowbarger doesn't belong to this list, so he is
unable to rave about his product, but I reckon his might've been one of the
first on the market anywayzz, so ... yeah. what do I know though. I'm only a
lowly terminal emulator script modifier at present. <grin.>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:01 AM
Subject: [jawsscripts] alternate investigative jaws toolboxes/utilities, was
Track Changes in msWord support,


> Ok Brian, I have forwarded your reply on to him.
> I am just reeeally surprised though, that like fs haven't got this working
> inHouse!
> I would've thought it would be a pretty well desired feature among any
> lawyers across the world!
> and thus a priority and basic thing for them to have worked with microsoft
> on getting this working well.
> Obviously not though.
>
> Brian since you mention your JTools product below, would you please care
to
> comment upon this new sweet,
> in regards to the other post I sent couple days back?  as per your views
and
> experience across the range of already built investigative jaws
> utilities/tools, jls utilities which I noted you liked, the BX toolBox,
> Homer Scripts, jfwTechnical, and now your own Offering? and how yours
might
> differ from any of these exactly, in functionality/design/purported ease
of
> use,  etc?
>
> Could you Tell us what JTools does, that Bx ToolBox for example, does not?
> and since you've obviously had exposure to at least some of these tools,
> elaborate on what you find JLS utilities helpful for, that perhaps the
other
> available tools don't do so well, or so readily?
> I haven't as yet begun seeking to pick up/learn any of these investigative
> tools, and I'd kinda like to get an overview upon them all before I choose
> which one and dive in.
>
>
> that would be very groovy if you would do that.
>
> . thanks.
>
> geoff c.
> From: "Brian Hartgen" <jaws@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:59 AM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Track Changes in msWord support, was jaws and
> windoweyes scripting abilities, leading edge?
>
>
> > Jeff, please get your friend to write to me.  We would love to get
> anything
> > like this working in our J-Tools product, which is a suite of jaws
> utilities
> > for working with different applications, including an extension to the
> > Internet placemarker utility in jaws.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoff Chapman
> > Sent: 07 December 2008 14:45
> > To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [jawsscripts] Track Changes in msWord support, was jaws and
> > windoweyes scripting abilities, leading edge?
> >
> > ok. Right! well, my sincere thanks Brian for this lucid and thorough
> > disortation on the sitch from your viewpoint.
> > and to everet as well for his valuable input.
> > I didn't know windoweyes didn't support QuickKeys in msWord.  that
> surprises
> > me, since they do on the internet do not they?
> >  and I actually thought GW were the ones who came out with it first,
since
> > my memory suggests that they adopted the whole virtual world MSAA Browse
> > thing, before jaws took it up? but this is vague in my head now, and
could
> > well be wrong.
> >
> > Whilst on MsWord and it's advantages with jaws, I have a lawyer friend
who
> > would find it incredibly incredibly useful, like huuuuge time, if an
> msWord
> > feature called "track changes," could really be scripted to work
properly,
> > and non-buggily.
> > He'll probably write to you brian about it, and he's not the only blind
> > lawyer in town whose mentioned this desire.
> > We mentioned this to Erric when he was last out here in aus,
> > but, does anyone up here have any idea as to why seemingly such an
> important
> > feature, for those using MsWord professionally in their workplace,
> > isn't yet supported well under jaws?  he asked me to find out whehter it
> was
> > under windoweyes per chance, as he told me he'd switch products in a
> > twinkling of an eye if he could have one that really maturely and
reliably
> > supported this feature.
> > anyone got anything to say upon this?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Brian Hartgen" <jaws@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:16 PM
> > Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: jaws and windoweyes scripting abilities,
> leading
> > edge?
> >
> >
> > > Hi Jeff
> > >
> > > I think the point is this.
> > >
> > > JAWS has had a scripting ability for many years and now all of a
sudden
> > the
> > > other manufacturers actually realise it is a great idea to have
> scripting,
> > > which it is.
> > >
> > > About 7 or 8 years ago, you are right, I was creating a lot of
> Window-Eyes
> > > set files for applications and was trying to be as creative as I could
> be
> > > with extremely limited tools available to me.  I became very
frustrated
> at
> > > this and so I turned to JAWS scripting.
> > >
> > > I only recount this because it illustrates many of us have had years
to
> > get
> > > used to the scripting language of JAWS which has not been there in
other
> > > products.  Consequently, when we have been asked to script an
> application
> > in
> > > the workplace, or we have been requested to create a product like
> J-Tunes
> > > which links JAWS and iTunes together, obviously JAWS has been what we
> and
> > > professionals have chosen because it has had a unique place in the
> market.
> > > People are not I feel going to switch screenreaders just because
> allegedly
> > > it has a higher quality scripting language than JAWS does, which is
> > > debatable.  Often, it's not about the tools you have but how creative
> you
> > > are with them in applying them to the situation you need to work with.
> > > While JAWS continues to be capable of being able to be scripted for
> > > applications in the workplace, there is no need for anyone to switch.
> > >
> > > The other thing you have to look at is the base product itself.  I
know
> > this
> > > is definitely a matter of personal preference, but if you have a
> > > screen-reader which still in my view has more functionality for people
> in
> > > commonly used applications then clearly that too is going to sell the
> > > product and so the quality of the scripting language becomes
irrelevant.
> > > Take two examples.  First, quick navigation keys within Microsoft
Word.
> > For
> > > people who have to deal with long and complex documents, structuring
the
> > > document well with headings etc and then using quick navigation keys
off
> > the
> > > back of it makes a blind person very productive.  Only JAWS has that
> > > feature. Second, context sensitive help.  This help system not only
> > provides
> > > useful environmental information but it also describes details of, for
> > > example, fine attributes concerning a Word document, such as its
margin
> > > settings or table information. Using a competitive product, if you
enter
> > an
> > > application and try and get help for that program you won't get the
> > quality
> > > of context sensitive help you will receive in JAWS.  Then, if you add
> > > scripting to the mix, you have an amazing and very useful product.
> > >
> > > I am sure I could easily learn scripting for Window-Eyes, and in fact
I
> > have
> > > been on the scripting course for the Dolphin products. But at the
moment
> > my
> > > work hasn't required me to learn the language because JAWS still leads
> in
> > > terms of popularity and sales, particularly here in the UK, and
> basically
> > > that's what it all boils down to.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoff Chapman
> > > Sent: 05 December 2008 14:45
> > > To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [jawsscripts] jaws and windoweyes scripting abilities,
leading
> > > edge?
> > >
> > > Hey Brian/listers.
> > >
> > > hey what you've said below brian, re your view that jaws is still the
> > > "leading edge" screenReader, with particular reference to it's ability
> to
> > > provide enhanced flexability re your business of writing scripts for
> > > increased usibility of applications etc,
> > > really kinda intrigued me.  Everet will indicate if he thinks this not
> on
> > > topic, but, given that WE now does have support for scripting, and
given
> > > that you were once a window eyes man if I remember rightly back in the
> > olden
> > > days,
> > > I'm  curious to have you share your particular reasons for thinking
Jaws
> > > *is*, still the "leading edge screenReader?" particularly I guess for
> > > ontopicness of this list, presumably in your view, in it's still ahead
> > > ability to meet the needs of high accessibility demands, even though
WE
> > now
> > > also has scripting capabilities?
> > >
> > > What I'm trying to ask is, have you yourself, personally, really put
the
> > new
> > > windoweyes scripting through it's paces?  to, for example, try and
mock
> up
> > > in windowEyes script land, what you've been able to achieve in jaws
> script
> > > land?  and if so, have you found definite areas that windoweyes
> scripting
> > > support still lags behind in, compared with that of jaws builtins?
> > >
> > > Or do you feel it's just not economically worth your while now
investing
> > > resources in learning Windoweyes scripting approach, in order to
perform
> > > such tests with any degree of equal fairness to both sides, as per
> > perceived
> > > strengths and weaknesses?
> > >
> > > I'm just really curious to hear you share your views/thoughts, as to
> > > specific reasons for below?
> > > I'm such an hsc man now that I can't see myself leaving the jaws world
> any
> > > time soon, given how much energy I've invested in it, but, I'm still
> > curious
> > > to hear other's views on this.
> > >
> > > Would you care to elaborate?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Brian Hartgen" <jaws@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 4:24 AM
> > > Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Announcement, JAWS for Windows training
> courses
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > Actually the message went to this list in error as it should have
gone
> > to
> > > > another jaws list.  Sorry about that. However:
> > > > 1. I did preceed it with the word "announcement" so in fact you
could
> > have
> > > > hit delete if you had wanted to.
> > > > 2. We have had two responses to it already who would not have
> otherwise
> > > > known.
> > > > 3. I think more importantly we are really trying very hard to
promote
> > jaws
> > > > as a screen-reading product.  These services and the third party
> scripts
> > > we
> > > > produce are just not being done in the UK at all.  With the advent
of
> > > > scripting abilities and enhanced features in other screen-readers, I
> > think
> > > > it is very important that we let people know about what jaws related
> > > > services are available to keep it the leading edge product that it
> truly
> > > is.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Matthew2007
> > > > Sent: 04 December 2008 16:10
> > > > To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Announcement, JAWS for Windows training
> > courses
> > > >
> > > > This is advertising on the list isn't it?
> > > >
> > > > Matthew
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Brian Hartgen" <brian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Cc: <bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:42 AM
> > > > Subject: [jawsscripts] Announcement, JAWS for Windows training
courses
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > > During 2009, our company are delivering some training courses in
the
> > use
> > > > > of the JAWS for Windows screen-reader.  If you would like to know
> more
> > > > > about the courses so you can learn more about JAWS, please visit
our
> > > > > Training Courses page at
> > > > > http://www.tandt-consultancy.com/courses.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian Hartgen
> > > > >
> > > > > __________
> > > > > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
> > > http://jawsscripts.com
> > > > >
> > > > > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > > > > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________
> > > > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
> > http://jawsscripts.com
> > > >
> > > > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > > > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> > > >
> > > > __________
> > > > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
> > http://jawsscripts.com
> > > >
> > > > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > > > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________
> > > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
> http://jawsscripts.com
> > >
> > > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> > >
> > > __________
> > > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
> http://jawsscripts.com
> > >
> > > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> > >
> >
> > __________
> > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
http://jawsscripts.com
> >
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> >
> > __________
> > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
http://jawsscripts.com
> >
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> >
>
> __________
> Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com
>
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
>

__________ 
Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com

View the list's information and change your settings at 
http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts

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  • » [jawsscripts] p.s. on alternate investigative jaws toolboxes/utilities, was Track Changes in msWord support, - Geoff Chapman
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