Hi Gisele I was making a general philosophical comment, it should not be read
as being directed at anyone, or about any individual actions that have been
commented upon in this thread. In fact I thank you very much for positively
Sharing your unfortunate experience, this is in itself a positive contribution
to all. With thanks, Martin.
On 4 Dec 2017, at 2:58 pm, Gisele Mesnage <giselemesnage@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello there Martin, Brendon.
I am sharing this reply to other lists, so not to have to replicate
re;replies on this discussion.
Brendon, for whatever reason, I didn't get a copy of your reply to my post on
BCA list that I can now read under Martin's post.
And Martin, I do not know if your reply below was directed at Brendon or at
me, or at the list in general.
So first to your question Brendon. As I said in my original post, "A major
service provider advised me that they may not be able to find a support
worker willing to take my dog on shopping trips or to appointments and so on,
as the support workers used their private vehicle to transport clients."
So clearly, this is not a situation where the service provider is "placing a
requirement" on me about not transporting me and my guide dog.
Rather,it's a situation where the service provider is not placing a
requirement on the support workers in its employ to take my guide dog in
their private car.
I made the move to switched provider because I did not want the inconvenience
and uncertainty of waiting for a support worker who was willing to take the
dog.
But at the same time, I sought advice on the legal requirements so that I
could make an informed decision if the situation recurred.
Martin, I am very conscious that the same situation could affect others ,
hence why I shared my experience and the advice I received to BCA and other
lists. I only received the advice from the AHRC re the application of the DDA
to that situation just this morning, so I could not have moved any quicker
than I did.
In terms of following up the issue, as I said in my post,even though I have
switched provider, I will contact the legal services cited in the AHRC
response to try and obtain further legal advice on the question, given the
AHRC advice is that the DDA here is not prescriptive.
I do not yet see it as a case of "blatant discrimination", given they have
not actually refused me a service, and the DDA is not clear in this
particular instance. As I see it, it is for the time being more likely to be
a case of ignorance. ,
When I get legal clarification , I will share it to the lists of course as I
said. ,
It goes without saying that if the legal advice is that the support workers
are under legal obligation to take the dog even if they use their private
car, I wil also contact the service provider in question too, and inform
them of their legal obligations in this respect.
And I will also follow-up with the NDIA, etc., as again there is a systemic
failure here on the part of the government to clearly inform the relevant
services on such questions.
Gisele Mesnage
email: giselemesnage@xxxxxxxxxxx
phone: 02 9799 5388
From: bca-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bca-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ;
Martin Stewart nariwill@xxxxxxxxxx [bca-l]
Sent: Monday, 4 December 2017 1:14 PM
To: brendoncdonohue@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Gisele Mesnage; bca-l list
Subject: Re: bca-l: Attention, NDIS and MAC participants: Carriage of
assistance dogs in the private vehicle of a support worker
Yes I would move to another provider, but I would also ensure that The
previous one are made legally accountable for such Blatant discrimination As
well. If we all just moved without any follow-up action this serious
discrimination would continue to be perpetrated upon the next blind service
user. With helping each other in mind, Martin.
On 4 Dec 2017, at 1:01 pm, Brendon Charles Donohue
brendoncdonohue@xxxxxxxxxx [bca-l] <bca-l-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Gisele,
If your support person will not transport your guidedog and you, then you
need to find out if this is a provider requirement? Or if this is a
requirement put in place by the support person supporting you?
If the support person that is supporting you, doesn’t like dogs, then you
could also consider using another person within the service provider.
But if the service provider in question is placing a requirement on you
about not transporting you and your guidedog then that is a big no! No! And
I would be moving providers strait away.
Thank you.
Brendon Donohue.
From: bca-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bca-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf ;
Of 'Gisele Mesnage' giselemesnage@xxxxxxxxxxx [bca-l]
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 10:02 AM
To: 'bca-l list' <bca-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: bca-l: Attention, NDIS and MAC participants: Carriage of assistance
dogs in the private vehicle of a support worker
Hello all,
I am a NDIS participants self-managing my plan. A major service provider
advised me that they may not be able to find a support worker willing to
take my dog on shopping trips or to appointments and so on, as the support
workers used their private vehicle to transport clients. I contacted Guide
Dogs NSW/ACT, and was told they believed the support workers were required
to take the dog. I also wrote to the Australian Human Rights commission to
ask how the DDA would apply in that circumstance. As others may be faced
with the same situation, I thought I would share the AHRC's reply . As you
will note, the DDA is not explicit on this question, but the Commission's
advice is worth noting.
I will be seeking further advice from the organisations cited in the below
email, and will share any further information I receive.
I am aware that many people will not have experienced this issue, but it's
still worthwhile to be informed. For my part, I have taken steps to seek
a different service provider, but I still want to know where I stand if
this issue should arise again. ,
Cheers,
Gisele
Gisele Mesnage
email: giselemesnage@xxxxxxxxxxx
phone: 02 9799 5388
-----Original Message-----
From: Info Service [mailto:InfoService@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] ;
Sent: Monday, 4 December 2017 9:38 AM
To: giselemesnage@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Your Contact [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Dear Gisele,
I refer to your email query regarding assistance animals.
You advise that you are an NDIS participant and that your NDIS support
worker will not transport your guide dog as they use their private vehicle.
You query whether the support worker would still be required to transport
your guide dog as part of the service.
This Commission can investigate complaints of disability discrimination as
defined under the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 (Cth) (DDA). This
includes claims of unfair treatment of a person who has an assistance
animal. The definition of assistance animals under the DDA includes any
animal that is trained to alleviate the effect of that person's
disability.
You can find more information about assistance animals at:
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/disability-rights/projects/assistan
ce-animals-and-disability-discrimination-act-1992-cth.
Whilst the DDA is not as prescriptive to touch on this exact issue, it
appears arguable that the support worker transporting you and your dog may
form part of the service which you receive from NDIS. Accordingly, if you
feel that you are being treated less favourably because of your assistance
animal, it is open for you to lodge a complaint with this Commission. Our
complaint form can be found at
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/complaints/make-complaint.
It is open for you to obtain legal advice about your options prior to
lodging a complaint with the Commission. You may wish to talk to the NSW
Disability Discrimination Legal Centre, a specialist community legal
centre. Further information can be found on its website at
http://www.ddlcnsw.org.au/.
Otherwise, you can contact Legal Aid office in NSW
(www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au) or your nearest community legal centre
(www.clcnsw.org.au).
Should you have any further queries or wish to provide clarification,
please respond by return email or call the National Information Service on
1300 656 419.
Regards,
Lara Miccoli
Complaint Information Officer
National Information Service
Australian Human Rights Commission
Level 3, 175 Pitt Street, Sydney NSW 2000 GPO Box 5218, Sydney NSW 2001 T
1300 656 419 F +61 2 9284 9611 E infoservice@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx W
www.humanrights.gov.au
Note: The National Information Service's opening hours are Monday to
Friday, between 10am to 4pm AEST.
-----Original Message-----
From: No Reply
Sent: Thursday, 16 November 2017 4:25 PM
To: Info Service <InfoService@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Form submission from: Contact us [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
*** This is an automatically generated email, please do not reply ***
Here is a copy of your enquiry to the Australian Human Rights Commission
Web enquiry form:
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------
Submitted on Thursday, November 16, 2017 - 4:24pm
Submitted by user: Anonymous
Submitted values are:
==Web enquiry form==
My enquiry is regarding: Complaints - (For more information about
the complaints process <a
href="//www.humanrights.gov.au/complaints_information/index.html">click
here</a>)
Name: Gisele Mesnage
Email: giselemesnage@xxxxxxxxxxx
Comments:
I am a NDIS participant. My service provider
has informed me that if one of their support workers accompanies
me for assisted shopping services, the support worker is not
required to take my guide dog in their car, because the support
workers who work for this service provider use their private
vehicle to accompany the client. While I understand that a
private citizen may refuse my guide dog access in their private
vehicle, if the vehicle is being used as part of my service
provided by the service provider, then does the law that applies
to public vehicles and taxis apply? Could you
please advise if under the Companion Animals Act, or under the
DDA guidelines relating to assistance animals,there is a section
clarifying this question? If so, could you please provide a
reference?
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