[opendtv] Re: CGMS-A issues
- From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 07:57:42 -0500
Jeroen Stessen wrote:
> But why can't we have some sort of exception for a temporary cache
copy on
>
> the hard disk for a "No_Copying_Is_Permitted" program ? Surely we do not
> want to be denied the joy of timeshifting ?! Are there similar issues
with
>
> the Broadcast Flag in the USA ? How is the acceptance by the public ?
Well, the Broadcast Flag was overturned by the courts. But ISTR that it
contained wording that over the air broadcasts commercial supported
broadcasts could not be set to copy-never anyway. But I'm not sure now
and haven't had my morning coffee yet.
You could imagine broadcasters getting pressure from advertisers to not
allow commercial skipping and a strict copy-never flag would do this.
Sure seems it would put a crimp in the DVR market.
- Tom
> Hello,
> My thanks to Bert and Kilroy and Gary for digging into the facts.
>
> Gary wrote:
>
>>For CGMS-A, the set top is supposed to assert one of the following in
>
> line 21
>
>>(the XDS bits IIRC)
>
>
> In Europe it is a different line. The information is carried in a similar
> way as the widescreen signalling bits, but the result is the same:
>
>
>>0 - Copying_Is_Permitted_Without_Restriction
>>1 - No_Further_Copying_Permitted
>>2 - One_Generation_Of_Copies_May_Be_Made
>>3 - No_Copying_Is_Permitted
>
>
>>And your PVR or DVD recorder is supposed to obey all this nonsense,
>
> assuming
>
>>it didn't get accidentally turned off when you made it region free...
>
>
> What I have heard is:
> - Philips DVD/HDD recorders faithfully obey the CGMS-A flags, and
> - some programs are indeed transmitted with "No_Copying_Is_Permitted".
> So I have read some complaints by very surprised consumers on the
> internet.
>
> Let it be known that I am not against copy protection. And I understand
> why Disney protects its very expensive tapes (and DVDs). But this will
> lead to the situation that you can not even timeshift a program anymore.
>
> Timeshifting is caching, which is not the same as copying. The program is
> typically stored on the harddisk in such a way that it can not (easily)
> be extracted from it (by a PC) and burned on a DVD. So it is a cache copy.
>
> It can not live outside the recorder. (If everything is well..)
>
> A cache copy should not be seen as a real copy. If caching were forbidden
> then all Internet Providers would be sued for caching peer-to-peer traffic
>
> and thus distributing copyrighted content. But they are exempted.
>
> The least that they (we) could allow is some sort of self-destruct
> mechanism,
> where a "No_Copying_Is_Permitted" program is automatically deleted after
> having been viewed. Or after so many hours or days of being stored.
> Whatever.
>
> This DVDR3300H always records first to the hard disk, and then you can
> make a copy to DVD. I know that if it receives a "
> One_Generation_Of_Copies_
> May_Be_Made" program, then when you copy it to a DVD the original on the
> hard disk is automatically deleted. And the copy will probably be marked
> "No_Further_Copying_Permitted". Fair enough.
>
> Fair enough ? "One Generation of Copies" is not the same as "One Copy" !
> This already seems to be a mis-interpretation of the Rules.
>
> But why can't we have some sort of exception for a temporary cache copy on
>
> the hard disk for a "No_Copying_Is_Permitted" program ? Surely we do not
> want to be denied the joy of timeshifting ?! Are there similar issues with
>
> the Broadcast Flag in the USA ? How is the acceptance by the public ?
>
> Best regards,
> -- Jeroen
>
> +-------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
> | From: Jeroen H. Stessen | E-mail: Jeroen.Stessen@xxxxxxxxxxx |
> | Building: SFJ-5.22 Eindhoven | Deptmt.: Philips Applied Technologies |
> | Phone: ++31.40.2732739 | Visiting & mail address: Glaslaan 2 |
> | Mobile: ++31.6.44680021 | NL 5616 LW Eindhoven, the Netherlands |
> | Skype: callto:jeroen.stessen | Website: http://www.apptech.philips.com/
> |
> +-------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
>
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