[vicsireland] Re: Further info please on Loadstone

  • From: "albertbrown" <albertbrown@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:16:30 -0000

Hello Maureen, the latest version of Loadstone will now work on your Nokia 6600. 


Bert
----- Original Message ----- From: "maureen newell" <mcnewell@xxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Further info please on Loadstone



Ronan, can I ask you which version of Loadstone you downloaded to your
6600 'phone.  On the website it mentions that the version for the 6600
should include this in title (or something like that) but I cannot find
mention of this on any of the downloads.

Much appreciated for your help,

Maureen.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronan McGuirk" <ronan.mcguirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:38 PM
Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Further info please on Loadstone



Hi all,

I will try and answer some of the Loadstone questions.

I use a long cane.   I didn't use a headset.  I had trouble getting a
headset to work at the same time as with the GPS connection.  I think

there

may be a limitation of one bluetooth connection at a time on my Nokia

6600

phone.  But in any case, I find a headset a bit distracting when I am

out

walking.  I simply stop and press the joystick on the phone to get my
nearest point or the next point in the four main directions.(forward,

back,

left or right)

You can set up Loadstone to announce points automatically when you

approach

them and I suppose a headset would be better if that is the way you

are

working.  I found the easiest way was simply to press the joystick if

I want

to know where I am.

Bert is right in that you need to have set up the waypoints on the

phone,

but as the website gets more and more Irish points, we will be able to
download increasing numbers of waypoints to the phone.
If a number of us work together we could get a very comprehensive set

of

points.  We could probably agree on the priority points pretty quickly
(train stations, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, major road

junctions,

places of work, shops and so on.  If 3 or 4 people were working

together in

a city I believe we could make great progress quite quickly.


Maureen was asking how we installed Loadstone.  I have a Nokia 6600

and I

installed it via an infrared connection from a laptop.
However depending on your equipment you could install in a number of

ways:

with a cable from a PC, with bluetooth from a PC, with infrared from a

pc,

with a card reader  onto the memory card of the phone, directly from

the

internet to the phone if you have the righe access, via bluetooth from
someone else's mobile phone and so on.


Ronan

----- Original Message -----
From: "albertbrown" <albertbrown@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:04 PM
Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Further info please on Loadstone


> Hello Tony,
> It would not be possible to take note of your surroundings   unless

you

> previously install the waypoints yourself.
> Bert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tonysweeney" <tonysweeney1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:22 PM
> Subject: [vicsireland] Further info please on Loadstone
>
>
> > Hi There,
> > I was just wondering if either of the three loadstoners might

consider

> > answering a few questions posed by this list on the product?
> >
> > The report by Ronan was excellent, but  wouldn't it be good to

have a

> > little
> > follow-up?
> >
> > I wonder how you would listen taking note of your immediate
surroundings;
> > I
> > suppose that you wouldn't use a full headset but possibly an

earpiece.

> >
> > Looking forward to further info.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Tony Sweeney.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sandberg, Robert" <robert.sandberg@xxxxxxx>
> > To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 10:15 AM
> > Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Well positioned in Dublin and Cork with

GPS

> >
> >
> > Hi folks!
> > Yes, I will add my congratulations to the previous ones. It's a

very

> > thorough report and you've obviously put a lot of pioneer work

into

> > boosting it in Ireland.
> > Just a couple of thoughts on the receiver and downloading

Loadstone.

> > I'm using the Globosat receiver, which is slightly larger than the
> > Holux, maybe the size of a fat matchbox, but it doesn't give me

any

> > problems with reception or linking to the phone. In fact, I didn't

even

> > have to set up a Bluetooth pairing, which I did with my headset.
> > Loadstone recognized it right away. It comes with a Velcro cover

which I

> > usually attach to a strap of my back pack.
> > I'd say the easiest way of putting Loadstone on your phone is to
> > download it strait on to it from the website. However I'm not sure

which

> > Talks version is required to access the web with your phone. I

managed

> > it with Talks Premium.
> >
> > And here's a question for the 3 Loadstoneers. According to the

report

> > only one of you used a headset. How did that work for you and how

did

> > the other two go about it. Personally I've a bit of a problem with

using

> > the headset. Of course it's the only alternative to constantly

holding

> > the phone up to your ear, but I find that my hearing is slightly
> > impaired when I wear it. Although it doesn't even fill out the ear

like

> > a walkman earphone does, it affects my directional hearing. Say I

have

> > someone walking in front of me, I can't tell where exactly they

are in

> > order to overtake them. Also I walk very slowly because it's

harder to

> > tell upcoming obstacles. That's really put me off using it a lot.

It

> > would be interesting to know if any of the 3 testers are GDO's and

if

> > cane users and GDO's make different experiences. I would assume

that a

> > GDO might have less of a problem with using a headset.
> > Cheers,
> > Robbie
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joan Ann

Brosnan

> > Sent: Sonntag, 21. Januar 2007 22:46
> > To: vics
> > Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Well positioned in Dublin and Cork with

GPS

> >
> > Hi Ronan
> >
> > This is a very interesting report on Loadstone and it seems to be

of

> > huge
> > benefit to blind people especially since Loadstone users can

gather

> > points
> > of interest and share them with other users.
> >
> > I have been using loadstone and a Holux GPs receiver since last

week and

> > so,
> > I'm still familiarizing myself with the program but, so far, I

have been

> > very impressed with its capabilities.
> >
> > If you know of any settings within loadstone that I should change

for

> > use in
> > Ireland or have any useful tips, they would be great.
> >
> > Joan Ann.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ronan McGuirk" <
> > ronan.mcguirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > To: <
> > vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 4:43 PM
> > Subject: [vicsireland] Well positioned in Dublin and Cork with GPS
> >
> >> Hello to the VICS list.  I am enclosing our report on the use of
> > Loadstone
> >> below.  We look forward to the comments of VICS members.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ronan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Report Begins:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Well positioned in Dublin and Cork
> >>
> >> - GPS and a mobile phone as a mobility aid for people with a

vision

> >> impairment
> >>
> >> -         authors: Aedan O'Meara, Cearbhall O'Meadhra, Ronan

McGuirk

> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Date January 2007
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Overview
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Over the past few months we have been experimenting with mobile

phones

> >> interacting with the Global Positioning System to assess the
> > usefulness of
> >>
> >> this technology as a mobility aid to people with a vision

impairment.

> >>
> >> We have been carrying out a trial of the Loadstone-GPS system at

two

> >> locations in Ireland, (Dublin and Cork). In this short paper we
> > summarise
> >> our experiences and are pleased to report that the experiment was
> >> successful.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What is the Global Positioning System?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Global Positioning System (GPS) is a satellite navigation

system.

> > A
> >> set
> >> of satellites is in orbit around the Earth. These satellites

transmit

> >> radio
> >> signals and a person with a GPS receiver can determine his/her
> > location
> >> based on these satellite signals. There is a very good article
> > explaining
> >> the Global Positioning System in Wikipedia at
> >>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
> >>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> What is Loadstone?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Loadstone-GPS is a free program designed for Series 60 Symbian

mobile

> >> phones. This software has been designed to work well with screen
> > readers
> >> such as Talks or Mobile Speak on the mobile phones. In order for
> >> Loadstone-GPS to work, it requires a separate GPS receiver that

is

> >> connected
> >> to the mobile phone using Bluetooth.
> >>
> >> It is worth noting that the hardware is standard off-the-shelf
> > equipment.
> >> It is not specially designed for visually impaired people.
> > Furthermore,
> >> the
> >>
> >> Loadstone-GPS program itself is free.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For more information on Loadstone-GPS check out the Loadstone

website

> > at
> >>
> >>
> > www.loadstone-gps.com
> >>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> What equipment did we use?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ronan used a Nokia 6600 with Talks 2.5 premium edition together

with a

> >> Holux
> >> Slim 236 GPS receiver.
> >>
> >> Aedan used a Nokia 6680 with Talks 3.0 premium edition with

dictionary

> > and
> >> a Holux slim 236 GPS receiver.
> >>
> >> Cearbhall used a Nokia 6680 with Talks 3.0 premium edition with
> >> dictionary,
> >> ThinkOutside Bluetooth keyboard, Motorola Bluetooth earphone And

a

> > Holux
> >> slim 236 GPS receiver.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> How we used Loadstone
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Global Positioning system works by receiving radio signals

from

> >> Satellites and calculating the location of the receiver as a

point of

> >>
> >> Latitude and longitude on the Earth.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> When you install Loadstone on your mobile phone and get it

working

> > with
> >> your
> >> GPS receiver, it can tell you your latitude and longitude,

altitude

> > and
> >> speed and direction of movement. However, to make full use of it,

it

> > is
> >> Necessary to have a way of converting latitude and longitude to

place

> >> names
> >> or as they are called "points of interest, or P.O.I.s".
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Loadstone, which is being written by a blind programmer, is

specially

> >> designed to make the recording of any point of interest to you
> > absolutely
> >> simple. Pressing the hash key in the Loadstone program on your

mobile

> >> phone
> >> puts you into an edit box and it is similar to entering a text
> > message.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> After using Loadstone for a few months we collected hundreds of

point

> >> names.
> >> The types of point names we collected included train stations,

Luas

> >> stations, shops, pubs and many road junctions.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ronan found that he could use loadstone to tell which train

station

> > the
> >> Dublin Dart had stopped at. Using Loadstone on the Dart train

gives a

> >> great
> >> deal of information. Not only can you tell which station you are

at,

> > but
> >> also when the train is moving you can tell the speed and

direction.

> > You
> >> can
> >> follow the curve of Dublin Bay as the train leaves Dun Laoghaire
> > heading
> >> due
> >> west and gradually curves through the compass till it is heading
> > north.
> >> Ronan found that he needed to learn the meaning of compass points

such

> > as
> >> West By North, and East by North East. Using Loadstone gives a

very

> > rich
> >> understanding of your location, speed, direction and altitude
> > especially
> >> if
> >> you are travelling in a bus or a car.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cearbhall collected points along the seafront in Bray. This is a

half

> >> kilometre of straight esplanade with no distinguishing features.

He

> > was
> >> able
> >> to use Loadstone to mark the point of entry to the esplanade (a
> > particular
> >> set of steps and buildings alongside the walk that identified
> > different
> >> parts of the route.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> When you have collected a set of points yourself or downloaded

them

> > from
> >> the
> >> point share exchange, Loadstone is a good help when trying to
> > understand
> >> your current location or find a point of interest.  It is simple

to

> > ask
> >> Loadstone what the nearest point is or to get the direction and
> > distance
> >> to
> >> a point you wish to reach.  Loadstone is not a substitute for a

long

> > cane
> >> or
> >> a guide dog, but it is a useful addition to your existing method

of

> >> mobility.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> How to look up an Internet map to get latitude and longitude
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is a web site at
> >>
> >>
> > http://stevemorse.org/jcal/latlon.php
> > with a search facility that is very
> >> simple and will give you the latitude and Longitude of any town

or

> > large
> >> village in Ireland, or anywhere else in the world. It will also

do the

> >> reverse. If you capture a point with loadstone you can look it up

on

> > this
> >> website to get the street address. Ronan found that it usually

gives

> > the
> >> correct street name in Dublin but the address number of the house

is

> > only
> >> an
> >> approximation.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Comparison of Loadstone with other location systems
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Unlike mapping systems which some of us have over a year's

experience

> > of,
> >> Loadstone stands out as the only viable and cost effective option

for

> > the
> >> visually impaired who wish to be told at any time exactly where

they

> > are
> >> on
> >> the surface of the earth. (yes, you can use it anywhere on the

surface

> > of
> >> the earth, even at the poles though we haven't tried this yet!).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At the moment the list of already labelled points of interest is

only

> >> being
> >> built by the voluntary efforts of current users. It is therefore

a

> > very
> >> rewarding project to be involved in as the information you gather

will

> > be
> >> there for generations to come who might need it! This is the only
> > program
> >> that allows you to build entirely your own route to suit bus,

train,

> > or
> >> any
> >> other off the road route. It is totally portable and once one is

used

> > to
> >> it
> >> you will never leave it at home!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Aedan has gone back to using Wayfinder for comparison purposes as

he

> > used
> >> it
> >> for a year before getting Loadstone. He reports that his

installation

> > of
> >> Wayfinder, in his circumstances, was totally sterile in that it

gave

> > no
> >> information like individual bus stops, etc that he had built up

with

> >> Loadstone.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Wayfinder only announced the turns and was awkward in use to find

even

> > the
> >>
> >> name of the road you have turned onto. It appears to be purely a
> > mapping
> >> program
> >>
> >> designed for car users, or sighted pedestrians.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ronan had previously used Mini GPs which is a program that came

with

> > the
> >>
> >> Talks premium edition and allowed the labelling of mobile phone

cells.

> >> Mini
> >>
> >> GPS can tell you the name of the mobile phone cell in which you

are

> >> located.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> However, in Dublin the cells can be quite large (3 or four

kilometres

> >> across
> >> in places). Obviously this only gives you a very approximate

location.

> > On
> >> the Dublin Dart train system the mobile phone cells often include

more

> >> than
> >> one station so it is not a foolproof method of identifying

location.

> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Loadstone by contrast gives you a location that can be accurate

to

> > about 5
> >> metres.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Saving points to the Point share website
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Each of us collected many points. The Loadstone-gps website

provides a

> >> database for sharing points. Over the past few months we have

added

> >> several
> >> hundreds of Irish places to the point share exchange.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Coverage of points in Ireland today
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Before we started using Loadstone, a number of Irish points had

been

> > added
> >> to the exchange. We are pleased to report that we have jointly

added

> >> several
> >> hundred more.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We have captured all Dart stations from Bray to Tara Street and

all

> > Green
> >>
> >> line Luas stations from Sandyford to Stephens green. We have

saved a

> > lot
> >> of
> >> points in the Dun Laoghaire Dalkey area and also in Dublin 4.

Ronan

> > went
> >> hill walking on the Wicklow Way and has saved several points

along the

> >> route
> >> and elsewhere in County Wicklow.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In Cork Aedan has added many points for Cork city centre, West

cork as

> > far
> >> as
> >>
> >> Clonakilty, and in East Cork from Fermoy to Dungarvan and in

Waterford

> > as
> >> far as Lismore, Waterford City, and Dunmore East.
> >>
> >> Cearbhall has collected most of the stations from Heuston

station,

> > Dublin
> >> to
> >>
> >> Waterford together with many points along the M50 from Bray to
> > Sandyford.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Problems we encountered with Loadstone
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ronan had problems with the Holux GPS unit not getting a signal

but

> > has
> >> now
> >> resolved this problem.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cearbhall found that the interest points marked on the Bray

seafront

> >> change
> >>
> >> each time he goes out. The change is small and not important when
> > noting
> >> buildings alongside the route. However, a series of four rubbish

bins

> > that
> >> create a hazard for a blind pedestrian and are spaced about ten

metres

> >> apart, are reported by loadstone as being in significantly

different

> >> locations every time one passes.  The accuracy of current

technology

> > can
> >> vary a bit from day to day and we are experiencing typical

accuracies

> > of
> >> about 5 to 10 metres.  The Wikipedia article we mentioned above

gives

> > a
> >> very
> >> good explanation of the factors that affect location accuracy.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We have got to grips with the peculiar way Holux works. You need

to

> > switch
> >>
> >> it on in an area with a guaranteed signal and wait about 30

seconds

> > before
> >>
> >> starting loadstone on the mobile phone. If you do this it works

fine

> >> afterwards. If you start it in an area with a bad signal (for

example

> > on a
> >> crowded train) then it often goes into a strange mode and won't

see a

> >> satellite signal until re-booted. We find that switching Holux

off and

> > on
> >> again with the switch on the Holux box works fine to get it back
> > working
> >> again, provided you wait about 60 seconds,  and we found that we
> > rarely
> >> needed to re-boot the phone.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Aedan found that in order to get an accurate direction of travel

it

> > was
> >> necessary to walk fairly quickly.  There is a feature built into

the

> > GPS
> >> units called Static Navigation that is the cause of this.  We
> > recommend
> >> that
> >> the Static Navigation feature be turned off.  If you get a unit

with

> >> Static
> >> Navigation turned on, you will either have to walk quickly to get

a

> >> direction or go through a somewhat complex process to turn this
> > feature
> >> off.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Loadstone program itself can be a little confusing in its

layout

> > and
> >> we
> >> have contributed through the email discussion list to a more

logical

> >> layout
> >> in certain parts of the newer versions.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Next steps
> >>
> >> We have no hesitation in recommending this product or, more

correctly,

> >> project as a fine example of the blind helping themselves to

create a

> >> fantastically useful tool to assist orientation.  We would

encourage

> > other
> >> visually impaired people in Ireland to try it out.  If we work
> > together we
> >> can build up a rich store of points on the point share exchange.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Looking to the future we expect technology to change fairly

rapidly.

> >> Loadstone-GPS currently works on the second edition Symbian

phones.

> > As of
> >> now it doesn't work on the 3rdrd edition.  Hopefully this will

change

> > over
> >> time.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We expect that over time GPS technology will rapidly improve and

GPS

> >> chipsets will be built into mobile phones.  Further, it is

assumed

> > that
> >>
> >> the new European GPS system Galileo, currently being built, with
> > several
> >> satellites already put into orbit, will have an accuracy level of
> >> centimetres.  This would mean that in a few years, if we still

have an

> >> accessible system like Loadstone-GPS,  we will be able to find

the

> > door,
> >> not just the building as at the moment!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We are in touch with the Ordnance Survey of Ireland (OSI) to see

if

> > their
> >> maps can be imported into Loadstone. We will also examine the

OSI'S

> > OWN
> >> GPS
> >> programs to see if they can be used by a blind person in a laptop

or

> >> mobile
> >> phone.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Report ends.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>
> >> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date:
> >> 12/01/2007
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.6/646 - Release Date:

23/01/2007

>
>





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