[access-uk] Re: n v d a

  • From: "Michael A. Ray" <mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:08:34 +0000

Hello,

I would have no hesitation to recommend NVDA to anybody.
When I first started losing my sight significantly about 5 years ago I bought Dolphin Supernova, for no other reason than that I already knew of the existence of Dolphin from being at college with blind students 20 years ago.
Since then I have become enraged by the level of support I received. I was constantly ringing the help-desk only to either be told they didn't know the answer to my queries or, more recently that I had to give them more money to solve my issues.
At that time I had NVDA installed on my PC but would only start it when Supernova choked and went silent. One day I realised this was more and more often and decided to ditch Supernova altogether because NVDA was doing everything I needed it to do. I was clinging on to Supernova for no other reason than familiarity.
I use the eSPeak synthesiser. I know it is not to everyone's taste but it really is so fast and responsive I would recommend NVDA newbies to persist with it until they get used to it.
Some people on this list have suggested NVDA is no use for anything other than 'writing the odd letter'. This is quite untrue.
I am a very demanding user. I use multiple tools to write software, connect to remote servers, write email, browse the internet, do my shopping online, crunch financial data with spreadsheets and more and NVDA never lets me down.
I am currently involved in writing NVDA add-ons to make otherwise inaccessible applications accessible.
And before certain people pounce on that as a drawback I will point out that most commercial screen-readers incorporate some kind of mechanism for extending their functionality.
Others seem obsessed with the notion of the 'off-screen model', and that NVDA doesn't have one. This is the same as many people's obsession with ditching Internet Explorer and using Firefox...99% of the people who advocate it, if challenged, don't have an answer 'why'.
NVDA doesn't have an 'off-screen model'...it has an 'on-screen model'. All navigable objects are overlaid by an abstraction, either from MSAA, UIA, or a bespoke accessibility layer.
There are applications which work better than others with NVDA. Another factor which will immediately be seized upon by anti-NVDA advocates to validate their opinion. But the same is true of most, if not all commercial products. I challenge any users of a commercial product to say they have NEVER had to either modify a method they use to get something done to accomodate a drawback with a commercial access product, or ditch a certain software product as inaccessible altogether. I don't think anybody on this list who doesn't have a commercial vested interested in doing so would attack NVDA.
I would willingly modify an aspect of my PC use to avoid paying extortionate prices for poorly supported commercial products. I have found that software tools written with the Qt widget toolkit are not accessible to NVDA...but I would NOT pay £1000 for the ability to use one product which can be replaced with another.
There is a prevelant attitude that a 'free' software product MUST be, by definition, worthless. If ALL free and Open Source tools disappeared tomorrow, more than about 75% of the internet infrastructure would cease to exist.
Who will answer my problems if I don't pay for the screen-reader? The answer to that question is, can you really rely on the help-desk at XYZ software to be there with the answer when you need it? Of course not. I have lost count of the times I have asked a question on the NVDA support email list at some ungodly hour of the night only to get multiple answers from the other side of the world almost immediately.
A short note for anybody who might be thinking I have attacked or flamed software vendors. I don't think that is true. I have only shared my experience. 

Mike



On 28/01/2013 12:20, Kevin Cussick wrote:

Hi,

I won't get into a screen reader war but I use nothing else. it's light
fast and just works fully portable no need to install any other drivers
like some other other screen readers that are so called portable. I will
leave it at that, the sinth dose take a bit of getting used to but if
you persevere it is worth it. I use vocaliser and these voices are not
free. but the price is well worth the money, you can also take these
vocaliser voices on a usb stick with your screen reader.

On 28/01/2013 11:59, Scott Cunningham wrote:

Hi Mike, Trace and all,

I am currently having massive problems with Window eyes a product I've
had
and enjoyed using for many years and very disappointed with both the
product
performance and their support too.
After reading some of the stuff you guys have said about N V D A, this
sounds a great alternative, would you guys recommend   it as a better and
mor stable option?

All comments greatly appreciated,

Thanks,


Kindest Regards

Scott Cunningham MBE

Web: www.Legendstrek.co.uk

Twitter: @S_Cunningham9
FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/#!/scott.cunningham.773



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Ibrahim Gucukoglu
Sent: 28 January 2013 05:20
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: n v d a

Hi Trace.

When we spoke yesterday, I told you that you can purchase the high
quality
Vocalizer voices for NVDA from Steve Nutt of Computer Room Services.  Why
don't you give him a call, he'll be able to assist you in installing said
voices so you can try them out before spending your money, however the
price

is £65 for all voices in all languages, that's nearly 50 different
voices I
believe.  These are the same voices Freedom Scientific provide for JAWS
purchasers and Window-Eyes users have to pay extra for.

All the best, Ibrahim.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael A. Ray
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:47 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: n v d a

Trace,

Try to stick with eSpeak.  I know it takes a lot of getting used to but
it is so lean and mean it is very responsive and can easily keep up with
anything I do.

Having been a PC user for 25 years I can type pretty fast and I need a
good responsive voice to keep up, and eSpeak never lets me down.  And it
has such a small resource footprint, if you don't have much RAM it
knocks spots off other synths.

There are a couple of other voices you could try.  The svox pico synth
is pretty small and has a nice female voice.  You can download it from
the NVDA site.
Mike


On 27/01/2013 18:59, Spring Flower wrote:

hi, i installed it this afternoon and have joined the freelists mailing
list, is that the one mentioned on the website?

the voice on it makes me loosethe will to live but other than that its
great, very informative and clear about where it is and what's
happening.

thanks

trace

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael A. Ray"
<mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 2:48 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: n v d a



Trace,

NVDA is great.  I have switched over to it totally and ditched
Supernova altogether.

There is a lively support email list, the details of which you can
find on the web site.

Mike


On 25/01/2013 13:40, Spring Flower wrote:

hi, brilliant, i need to download it and install it separately. it
doesn't automatically install when downloaded does it?

i've heard its very good with itunes, and from you saying that you use
it in itunes i'm guessing that what i've heard is correct,

brilliant, thanks again, i'm in a great mood right now as i've just
found out that andy murray beat federa!!

go andy!!

trace

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael A. Ray"
<mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 2:06 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: n v d a



Trace,
I use NVDA here for everything including iTunes.

I used to use Supernova but ditched it because of the constant
upgrade
costs and the fact that I knew more about Supernova than the guys on
their help-desk.

To use NVDA just install it and switch off Supernova.

You can set it up so that when you press control+alt+N it will
start...but stop Supernova first.

Mike


On 24/01/2013 13:48, Spring Flower wrote:

hi
i was checking out the n v d a prog yesterday, i use supernova
but its
not yet compatible with itunes version 11 but i've heard that n v
d a
is, on their website i read that ou can run the prog from a memory
stick, so my question is, how would i use the prog to access itunes
when
supernova is my main screen reader,
also is there a mailinglist for users of n v d a
i believe that dolphin are working on a map file for itunes 11
but i'm
too impatient to wait
any help much appreciated
trace


--
Michael A. Ray

Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

Ham Radio Callsign: G4XBF, licenced since 1982

'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem'

Use the NVDA screen-reader, not Scientific, just Freedom:
http://nvda-project.org/
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--
Michael A. Ray

Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

Ham Radio Callsign: G4XBF, licenced since 1982

'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem'

Use the NVDA screen-reader, not Scientific, just Freedom:
http://nvda-project.org/
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
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--
Michael A. Ray

Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

Ham Radio Callsign: G4XBF, licenced since 1982

'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem'

Use the NVDA screen-reader, not Scientific, just Freedom:
http://nvda-project.org/
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
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