[AR] Re: Hydrogen and oxygen used as pressurizing gasses

  • From: Brian Feeney <alaiadesign@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 18:13:52 -0500

It was Henry Spencer years ago that advised the difficulties of self
pressurizing LH2 system so I don't think it will work or put differnetly,
we can achieve pressurization through other methods without as much
unpredictables.

I can get the LH2. No I have not worked with it before. I've been
researching it on and off for years and before I, we experiment with it
seasoned expertice will be brought on board.

While there is a prolific amount of information on it, handling and its
application to rocket engines from NASA et all, we are teaming up with one
of the automotive companies that has lots of present to past experience
with it including civillian filling methods that were demonstrated. That is
to say bringing into the picture traditional rocket experience with LH2
plus industrial and (lateral thinking) appropriate auto sector assistance...

Back in the day we had no prior experience with N2O. We got an industrial
gases expert on board plus utilized the experience of our supplier Air
Liquide. We received and were able to handle 40 foot tanker load quanties.
In hindsight I would never use it anymore.

As described years ago we had an unexplained engine cato following a failed
ignition of the hybrid engine. The gas cold flowed for about 2 second and
big boom in the quarry - all safe distance away. Interestingly we never saw
a flame until review of the very slomo video which show a very short
duration large 20 ft or so expansion flame.
On 2015-12-11 5:41 PM, "Ben Brockert" <wikkit@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Brian Feeney <alaiadesign@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! Will hydrogen gas on LH2 work or will it have
the
same problem as O2 gas on LOX?


Yes. Though it will be different than LOX, because hydrogen is always
different. Do you have a source for liquid hydrogen? It's not a fluid
I've ever bought. have you worked with it before?

The amount of gas that dissolves into the liquid is a balancing act
between the specific heat of the gas times the temperature difference,
vs. the heat of vaporization and specific heat of the liquid. Gas at
the surface is giving heat to the liquid, with the gas turning to
liquid if it's able to give up enough heat. Eventually the surface of
the liquid is at a temperature where its vapor pressure is equal to
the tank pressure and an uneasy stalemate is reached. Until you shake
the tank. This also means that the liquid quality goes down as the
tank is depleted; expect the injector and possibly plumbing to go two
phase and give weird results at the end of the burn.

Because they're both diatomic gasses, hydrogen and oxygen have very
similar specific heat per volume of the gas. But the hvaps are very
different.

Ben


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