[AR] Re: Hydrogen and oxygen used as pressurizing gasses

  • From: "Troy Prideaux" <GEORDI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 09:43:52 +1100

Can't argue with the 1st paragraph which is about as well as you can phrase and
articulate that point.

I'd cautiously agree with the 3rd with a few caveats - many caveats actually.
Few things to be mindful of (which you already know):

The systems that favour pumps the most are 1st stages where you need reasonable
chamber pressures to gather reasonable efficiency from your nozzles. The lower
the atmospheric pressure (outside of the nozzle) the less useful high chamber
pressures are, hence the lower you can maintain your general system pressures
for feeding and tankage allowing for lighter containment. We've all discussed
this on numerous occasions.
Also, what are the materials being considered for the pressure containment?
Are we automatically discounting the use of light weight composite structures -
if so, it needs to be noted. If not, then the bar is lifted in terms of what
level of crappiness of your pump can be before there's minimal performance
advantage from utilising them.
Of course, what's also of critical importance is the density of your
propellant with these decisions. Light fluffy propellants will nearly always
favour pumps but the picture is far more blurred for propellants at the other
end of the density spectrum.

Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Ben Brockert
Sent: Monday, 14 December 2015 8:46 AM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AR] Re: Hydrogen and oxygen used as pressurizing gasses

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 7:02 PM, William Claybaugh <wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Simple systems tend to be lower cost and higher reliability....


Which is one of those classic phrases that sound obvious and true at first read
but isn't actually true at all. Compare the reliability and life cycle cost for
200,000 miles of a car from 1965 and a car from 2015. The newer car is also
vastly more complex, with entire systems that don't exist on the older car, yet
the newer one is cheaper and vastly more reliable.

If you argue that it's because the technology has improved, then take a modern
car and strip a lot of stuff out of it to make it simpler, and show me a
cheaper and more reliable version of itself, and explain why the manufacturer
doesn't do that already.

The reason almost every orbital rocket has pumps is because even a really shit
pump makes for a more effective system than the most clever and simple pressure
fed system. And I say that as someone who has worked on a dozen different
pressure fed vehicles.

Ben


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