[AR] Re: SpaceX F9 Launch/Update -- Live Link

  • From: Henry Vanderbilt <hvanderbilt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 19:59:42 -0700

On 12/24/2015 6:59 PM, William Claybaugh wrote:


On Thursday, December 24, 2015, Henry Vanderbilt
<hvanderbilt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:hvanderbilt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

Again I'd caution that traditional industry perspective may lead to
error. In this instance, both because the development costs seem to
have been kept far lower than trad industry equivalents, and because
both outfits seem to be planning to amortize them over a larger
number of flights over a longer run than is traditional.

There is not any traditional industry perspective here: the time value
of money simply is.... Taking a "40 year" perspective means accepting a
2% return; that is just math.

The time value of money simply is... an accounting convention. (You keep saying that. I do not think it means what you think it means.) A widely used, and useful one, yes. But all it does is provide a benchmark for comparing various levels of investment payoff versus time.

For starters, "40 year" is an exaggeration, I would tend to place SpaceX's, Blue Origin's, and others in the low-cost transport industry's investment horizons as 10-20 years. 10 years hoped-for, often longer actual... SpaceX was founded in 2002, for instance, and it's only in the last year or two that they've begun making serious inroads in the market.

The eventual return on investment also depends on the long-term shape, and share, of the market involved. Your "just math" involves as best I can tell some seriously pessimistic assumptions about how market size may (fail to) respond to large reductions in price (and about the likely margins of price over cost) analogous to predicting airliner development will never pay because "reasonable" extrapolations of the size of the steamship passenger market will never support the traffic volume required.

All that said, yes, there's a good chance most of us involved in this field could make more money faster elsewhere. But, this needs doing. I'm damn glad people combining those levels of talent and means agree.

Choosing to so do is the privilege of wealth--noblise oblige and all
that--but there is no making up the difference on volume...do the math.

Were the market permanently inelastic and margins permanently low, that would be so.

I'd suggest Amazon.com as food for thought. It's apparently been
run hard-over for growth rather than profit for most of its
existence - yet somehow it's made its founder rich enough to have a
sideline of developing boosters "..planning to amortize [the R&D]
over a larger number of flights over a longer run than is traditional."

Agreed that SpaceX is not necessarily operating at an overall profit
currently either. I'd be inclined to guess from what I've seen that
their goal is to operate somewhere near break-even, while both
grabbing more of the existing market and expanding it. With
"break-even" including paying for their (both remarkably active and
remarkably by-trad-standards cheap) ongoing R&D operation.

They seem, so far, to have been able to raise the capital to take
this approach.


The current equity bubble will burst....

Very true - which is one reason I'm in a hurry, and think it a good thing if the recently-emerging public rivalry between Bezos and Musk causes the pace to be picked up. The current opportunity won't last forever.

Then too, both of those gentlemen (others also) have survived previous equity busts. Still, the more cashlow established before the next, the better.




Looking at these operations from a traditional industry
perspective
can lead one to assume the designs are largely fixed and very
difficult to change, and thus must be factored into economic
calculations largely as-is. But SpaceX in particular has
made it
very clear they're not following this traditional frozen-design
model at all, but rather one of continuous incremental
improvement.
Assuming such incremental improvement won't be part of the
process
of bringing reuse into the routine operation strikes me as very
likely to be a significant error.


Careful: the organizational effects of the launch failure have
not shown
up in prices yet.


I'm not sure they will, at least not to any huge extent. SpaceX may
instead treat the immediate impact as a capital cost (didn't they
recently shake the investor tree again?) and make it back over more
time than you'd expect. But yes, several months of gotta-be
expensive delay/recovery aside, it will be interesting to see to
what extent this will have forced higher costs on their ongoing
operations. My guess would be, not much - I expect they'll have
worked very hard to fix the problems revealed with a minimum of
increased ongoing ops costs.


I can't talk about what I know but I can observe that customers are
historically very aggressive about imposing lots of new process after a
launch failure.


Heh. I've haggled with those customers myself. On a good day, you can find a way to make them happy that doesn't cost nearly as much as their initial proposal (which tends to be made with NO consideration of what it'll cost you.) I expect SpaceX has been working really hard recently at keeping new process costs down to a dull roar.

But yes, we won't know for sure for a while. I see no reason to bet against them yet, though.

Henry


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