[AR] Re: peroxide purity (was: HTP supplier)
- From: "Timothy Bendel, Frontier Astronautics" <Timothy.Bendel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:17:20 -0700
"I wonder why you wrote your email instead of letting Michael do that
himself, your business silo companion."
Because you were so off base.
Or because he couldn't care less to react?
Or because he has a job that needs his full attention.
" An abandoned ICBM silo enterprise eh, like the Breeds on this list."
Are you insulting Paul Breed?
Why would I even think to insult the Breeds of this list? I did tell them to
use cheaper iron nitrate instead of messy permanganate. They never even tried
that I think.
I see. So you are not "insulting" Paul but you are gloating over your advice to
him.
" My question regarded only (about to correct me if I was wrong) that no
amateur ever was capable to launch a kerosene-peroxide bipropellant rocket."
No amateur has put something in orbit either. Should we dismiss orbital
missions because amateurs have not done it?
People who can put something in orbit are not amateurs. Your remark is
pointless.
Technically, people who do not *make money* off of their projects are amateurs.
By the way, why do you care if an amateur has made a hydrogen peroxide
bi-propellant rocket before. There is always the first time (unless you never
try).
XL Space Systems went away because Michael decided to work directly for
Beal. As for "bad press", do I have to remind you of all the negative arm
chair commentaries about SpaceX when they started? >The point I was making
was that Michael Carden made a huge amount of hydrogen peroxide for Beal and
it did work.
The press said it did not. His "plant" at MacGregor was torn down, next rebuilt
in Michael's absence and the HP produced was by a different installation
design. Check the internet: many sources from around the millennium, it is no
secret.
You can ask Michael yourself if you want. I know that he did indeed make a
whole bunch of peroxide for Beal.
And why is "plant" in quotes. Disparaging remark I assume...
To be blunt, why should a customer care about the method of production if the
product meets specs?
That is an IF question.
To be blunt how many people are working to run the XL Space Systems
concentrator? One person, half time? More?
Why does it matter if he works half time in XL Space and half time in the USAF
reserves? Again, why should a customer care about the method of production if
the product meets specs?
That is indeed what was said then. Large chemical companies are afraid of bad
press with their product when accidents 'd occur with it by (maybe
irresponsible) entrepreneurs, what else? Hence their term "responsible care".
If I would own an HP company and someone got the great idea to mix it with a
propellant like alcohol, press it through a cat pack equipped with glowplugs
and proved it did not explode as yet... Now seriously, would you give the
go-ahead?
Now it sounds like you are insulting Armadillo.
You can deal with FMC if you want. Call up XL Space and you will actually
get hydrogen peroxide.
Last Michael wrote me he was not ready to send HP to Europe. ± 3-4 years ago.
Shipping concentrated peroxide out of the U.S. constitutes an export of
hazardous material. As such, one would need an export license. I would not be
surprised if Michael did not have such a license. I also suspect that the EU
would demand all sorts of licenses from whoever receives it as well.
-----Original Message-----
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [
mailto:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of John Dom
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:18 AM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AR] Re: peroxide purity (was: HTP supplier)
Timothy Bendel wrote:
"I wonder why you wrote your email instead of letting Michael do that
himself, your business silo companion."
Because you were so off base.
Or because he couldn't care less to react?
" An abandoned ICBM silo enterprise eh, like the Breeds on this list."
Are you insulting Paul Breed?
Why would I even think to insult the Breeds of this list? I did tell them to
use cheaper iron nitrate instead of messy permanganate. They never even tried
that I think.
" My question regarded only (about to correct me if I was wrong) that no
amateur ever was capable to launch a kerosene-peroxide bipropellant rocket."
No amateur has put something in orbit either. Should we dismiss orbital
missions because amateurs have not done it?
People who can put something in orbit are not amateurs. Your remark is
pointless.
XL Space Systems went away because Michael decided to work directly for Beal.
As for "bad press", do I have to remind you of all the negative arm chair
commentaries about SpaceX when they started? The point I was making was that
Michael Carden made a huge amount of hydrogen peroxide for Beal and it did
work.
The press said it did not. His "plant" at MacGregor was torn down, next rebuilt
in Michael's absence and the HP produced was by a different installation
design. Check the internet: many sources from around the millennium, it is no
secret.
" Maybe a good idea to use a sparger to produce amateur hydrogen peroxide.
Not so for industry: they all use vacuum distillation, at least up to 85 %."
Keep in mind that big companies like FMC have integrated plants that make
many more chemicals then just hydrogen peroxide.
Integration is often possible. I know plants who produce HP just because some
process requires it. Like BASF, but they do not sell HP as a product because of
such integration possibility.
To be blunt, why should a customer care about the method of production if the
product meets specs?
That is an IF question.
To be blunt how many people are working to run the XL Space Systems
concentrator? One person, half time? More?
" Now it seems FMC does sell peroxide to amateurs: well not to Armadillo and
that is why they abandoned peroxide as a propellant. A pity after so much
experience gathered."
If they wouldn't sell to Armadillo, why would they sell to any other amateur
group? FMC gave Armadillo the run around saying that they would sell to them
*if* they only made a few safety changes at their shop. Carmack made the
changes and then FMC wanted more changes. After a while Carmack realized they
were just messing with him and would not sell to them.
That is indeed what was said then. Large chemical companies are afraid of bad
press with their product when accidents 'd occur with it by (maybe
irresponsible) entrepreneurs, what else? Hence their term "responsible care".
If I would own an HP company and someone got the great idea to mix it with a
propellant like alcohol, press it through a cat pack equipped with glowplugs
and proved it did not explode as yet... Now seriously, would you give the
go-ahead?
You can deal with FMC if you want. Call up XL Space and you will actually get
hydrogen peroxide.
Last Michael wrote me he was not ready to send HP to Europe. ± 3-4 years ago.
jd
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