If they beat up someone that is one thing, but if they shoot someone
that is kind of hard to cover up.
___
Carl Sagan
“Every aspect of Nature reveals a deep mystery and touches our sense of wonder
and awe. Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to
nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will
prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront
the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the
Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will
penetrate its deepest mysteries.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
On 8/28/2020 1:23 AM, Frank Ventura wrote:
I really seriously question any "statistics" about police violence. Who is doing the
counting? When the cops would beat up or kill someone in the projects they just walk away and no
official record of it is made. So any "statistics" that are available are made up by the
cops themselves and we know how honest they are.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 10:20 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer "We Appreciate
You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
I read so many articles that it is kind of hard to keep in mind where I read a
particular thing. But recently I read an article that included some statistics
about the racial and ethnic background of people who get shot by cops. I could
have read this on this very list, but I don't remember. The article
concentrated mostly on Chicago, but it mentioned statistics of the same thing
nationally too. I don't recall New York City being specifically mentioned, but
it may have been. Anyway, it said that the number of people who were shot were
pretty close for Blacks and whites, but given the proportion of each race in
the population and the proportion of each race that have encounters with the
police and the frequency of those encounters the rate at which Black people are
shot was tremendously greater than that of white people. There was also
discussion of other races and ethnicities. Hispanics were shot proportionally a
lot more than white people, but not quite at as high a rate as Black people.
Some Googling around might find the article or, if it doesn't, might find the
statistics. I don't care to do that right now because it is getting late and I
am still trying to catch up on email after spending most of yesterday afternoon
on the phone with a technical support guy about my AOL mail suddenly not
working with Thunderbird, but if you want to do the Googling you just might
find the exact figures.
___
Carl Sagan
“Every aspect of Nature reveals a deep mystery and touches our sense of wonder
and awe. Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to
nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will
prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront
the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the
Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will
penetrate its deepest mysteries.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
On 8/27/2020 6:36 PM, Frank Ventura wrote:
Miriam, while you can read anything you want to read or listen to any podcast you want to
listen to, until you have lived it you just ain't lived it. It doesn't surprise me that the
media wants you to believe that blacks are victimized by cops in higher numbers than
Hispanics. The media in all its forms (left, right, or indifferent) are there to protect the
financial status quo. Can you imagine if the media really reported how many Hispanics are
killed in NYC by cops each year? That would cause an almost instantaneous response from the
city's largest growing population segment that could cripple the economy overnight. Blacks
just don't have the population numbers. The signs on the buildings and even the street signs
in the neighborhood I lived in were in Spanish, not creole. There really aren't a large
population of blacks compared to Hispanics in the Bronx. As I said previously, I think we are
talking about different eras when it comes to the NYC Police. Queens and Brooklyn in the '50s
and '60s is a very different experience than the Bronx in the "70s and '80s. During the
time I lived there I saw very few white cops. Most of the few white cops that were there were
all older veterans. One thing that was true then and is still from what I have been told from
friends I still have there is that cops who get caught doing really bad stuff like rape or
murder are transferred to the Bronx to sweep the issue under the table. The Bronx is by far
the poorest borough. Most of the 2.1 million folks live at or below the poverty level. It is
the borough that almost has no media attention and the people have no voice now that there is
no more graffiti on the subway cars. If it weren't for the Yankees most folks would never even
know the Bronx exists. When the really bad cops get transferred to precincts in the Bronx,
they view that as some sort of punishment and lash out by punishing the residents of the Bronx
right back, usually by shaking them down for money. When people can't pay, the violence
starts. It doesn't matter how light or dark your skin is, if you are poor in the Bronx your
chance of survival is low. The media's narrative that it a white versus black thing is a
clever means for the corporate elites to divide and conquer. I know what you mean by joining
the mob (not mafia) as a way out. My mother never wanted that for me. In 1980 I witnessed the
cops kill my 85 year old unarmed grandfather because my mother didn't have any money to pay
them, what we used to call the "dropsies" which is kiddie-slang for a payment to the
cops in poor neighborhoods. I knew that they could kill my mother next if we didn't have more
money for them. I used to go to school crying every day because I knew I could come home and
find her dead or maybe just gone. A few years later I learned to steal cars from some of my
neighbors and I gave the money to my mother for the cops. She thought I was cleaning bathrooms
in gas stations, which of course, would not have paid enough to keep her alive. I used to sell
the cars to a chop shop at the end of Zerega Avenue just past the old sanitation department
depo. That is the same sanitation department depot where every other Friday (pay day) my
mother used to hustle the garbage men to earn a few more bucks since her teacher pay couldn't
keep up with '70s era inflation and 5 mouths to feed. The cruel irony is that the stolen car
gig taught me enough technology skills to advance high into the upper levels of the auto
repair industry and a way out that few folks would have. For both my mother and her parents,
who lost everything in the depression, they knew there was no means for them out of the South
Bronx in their lifetimes. However, they all found it in death as they are all buried in St.
Mary's cemetery in Flushing Queens and not in the Bronx. Of course, they fared better than my
younger sister, who disappeared when I was 5 or my paternal grandfather who fell into a cement
vat where he worked in Jersey and is probably buried under some parking lot or building
foundation somewhere. None of this is easy to write about these days.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 2:12 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Interesting. The news stories about New York City and cops and who gets stopped
and frisked and who gets killed, are rather different from what you describe.
From my work in adoptions, (I had a number of police officers and retired
police officers as clients), and my personal experiences, most of the cops in
the city are white, and they come from Long Island and Staten Island. The
husband of the woman who took me shopping in her car and did errands for me for
more than 20 years, was a NYC cop. He was Irish American and came from Nassau
County. My son-in-law's father was a NYC detective who lived in Levittown. He
was German American. These men and all their friends and associates were white,
not black or Latino or Chinese, although I know that there certainly are black,
Latino, and Asian NYC cops.
My husband was Italian American. He was blind from about 3 years of age and he
was 17 years older than I. He attended a residential school for the blind, then
Brooklyn College, and later, graduate school in Michigan. He told me that if he
hadn't been blind, he would have been a member of the Mafia because that was
the path to success for Italian kids when he was growing up. His family was
Sicilian. He had very fair skin.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 1:46 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Miriam, the cops don't know I am white. I grew up in a neighborhood that is greater than 90 percent
Hispanic and I speak with an obvious heavy Hispanic accent and even occasionally throw in a word or
two is Spanish without knowing it. My skin is very dark. If you were to encounter me without
knowing me you would either think Puerto Rican or Dominican, and yes cops in NYC kill Hispanics
too. Even after they would shoot me they would pull my wallet out and see my last name is
"Ventura" which is an Hispanic name. Do you think they would do a DNA test before they
shoot me? So I ask you how do you think the cops would know that I was Italian? What you don't know
that many times during my 26 years of living in the Bronx I have been at gunpoint and when
questioned by cops I started to reply in English. That usually infuriated them and several times
they cut me off and told me not to speak "their" language. From the '80s on there are
really very few Irish or Italian cops In NYC. The force is very representative of the cultural
makeup of NYC; meaning mostly Hispanic with some black, Asian and white members.
This indicates that a diverse police force doesn't cure the inherent racism in policing,
because no matter what race, color or creed you are before you join the force as soon as
you do your race now becomes not white nor black, but blue; hence the racist mantra of
"blue lives matter". As far as your question about cops only killing black
folks without provocation; was that made in jest? If so I don't think it was funny. The
majority of unarmed folks killed by police are not black in NYC. The folks are killed in
the same makeup as the population with Hispanics being the largest group by far.
When I was growing up in the South Bronx neighborhood of Castle Hill, on my block only
myself and Ritchie Castro were the only two male kids to make it out alive. Both of us
knew from a very early age that when a cop car was on the block we got face down on the
pavement, spread eagle, and didn't even flinch. We survived; however other kids who ran
away or opened their mouths weren't so lucky. Probably the closest call I had was when
once I was pulling my cab down the block after my sift. I pulled my cab into the alley
next to the building we lived. I didn't see the two plain clothes cops wo were back
there. That was unusual for me, I was usually pretty good at knowing when they are
coming. One of the two cops took two shots at my cab, one missed entirely and the other
went through the windshield and missed my head by an inch or so. You speak about cops
shooting folks while being "unprovoked" so in that circumstance were they
provoked or not? The first rule of dealing with cops in NYC is that you *never* look at a
cop or make eye contact. So I looked at the cop; was he provoked? Let me ask you:
How many times have the NYC shot your relatives to death?
How many times have you had a gun up against your head?
How many times have you been face down on "their" pavement?
How many times has one of their bullets narrowly missed your head?
These are all serious questions and I am very interested in hearing your
answers..
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 12:51 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Frank,
But you are white. You're of Italian extraction, right? So why would they
police shoot you? A lot of police officers, especially here in New York, in the
city, are also of Italian extraction. It's only black people whom they shoot
without provocation, isn't it?
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 6:09 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Well lets see if I walked in front of cops carrying a gun I don't think they
would shake my hand. I would die of a led overdose. This is going to sound
paranoid but for a long time I have felt if Trump doesn't win this November's
election he will call upon his right-wing militia buddies to use force to keep
him in office.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 6:59 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer "We
Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer "We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly
Shootings Coordination between police and far-right groups is far from abnormal but as
yesterday's killings show, it is becoming much more dangerous.
by Alan Macleod
August 26th, 2020
By Alan Macleod
Three people were shot and two died last night in Keshona, Wis, as right-wing militias hit the
streets, shooting demonstrators protesting the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday. After two
nights of angry demonstrations, Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers, who originally described the event
as a "merciless" act of police cruelty, called in the National Guard and declared a state
of emergency. However, along with the National Guard came large numbers of right-wing militia
groups, existing relatively harmoniously with law enforcement. Far-right news organizations and
websites had earlier signal boosted the Kenosha Guard militia's call for reinforcements to come to
"protect lives and property."
Last night's killings were filmed and immediately posted on social media. In one video,
protesters fight with an armed militiaman, who fires at three people at point blank range,
killing two. He then hurries from the scene, "repeating "I just killed
someone," retreating back towards police lines, still carrying his rifle. Even as the
crowd shout to the police that the killer is coming towards them, they ignore him, instead
instructing the protesters to get out of the way.
The shooter has been widely identified as a 17-year-old boy. From his public Facebook
page, it is clear that he idolizes the police, his profile picture being a "Blue
Lives Matter" logo with him in the center, holding a rifle.
Virtually every post he made is about either the police or guns. As of Wednesday morning,
he is still at large. Footage taken earlier in the night shows the teenager bragging that
he and his crew "don't have non-lethal"
ammunition with them.
Another video shows them fraternizing with heavily militarized police, who offer them
water and tell him "we appreciate you guys, we really do,"
evidence which might explain why he was neither shot nor even arrested after
killing two people right in front of dozens of law enforcement officers.
Speaking about the shooting, Lieutenant Governor of the State of Wisconsin, Mandela
Barnes said that "we can't even act surprised that this happened."
Barnes said that it had become normal to see heavily armed militia in
public, adding,
In many instances, these people have been led on by various conspiracy theories that
have ruminated on the internet, and these people are demanding to have their country
back. And to assume that nothing bad is going to happen, to assume that these people
are up to - or, have the most fine intentions, is completely ridiculous."
Not an isolated incident
Coordination between police and far-right groups is far from abnormal.
During the George Floyd protests, Oregon police associated with groups such as the Proud Boys,
video showing one officer asking the group to hide in a building because they were about to start
gassing protesters, but to do it "discreetly," as they did not want to be seen as
"playing favorites."
Another Oregon officer was caught on camera flashing the "White Power" hand
gesture at right-wing counter demonstrators.
In June, a Seattle man drove his car at high speed into anti-racist protesters, opening
fire at the crowd. He then calmly leaves his vehicle and walks over to police lines,
where they shield him, turning their backs on the armed killer to face the crowd. That
they appeared totally unconcerned at this is a sign of how confident they were that they
were in no danger. As activist news outlet It's Going Down noted, "Such a
relationship allows the police to use far-right groups as an auxiliary force against
social movements."
A study published last year by Injustice Watch found that 20 percent of police
officers nationwide have shared egregiously racist material or content
glorifying police violence against protesters on their public Facebook
accounts. This figure rises to 40 percent of retired cops. Rarely is any action
taken against officers sharing this content. On the other hand, a Massachusetts
officer was recently fired for sharing a pro-Black Lives Matter social media
post.
The shooting of Jacob Blake
The events of last night were sparked by an incident on Sunday, where an unarmed black
man, Jacob Blake, was shot from point blank range in the back at least seven times by
police officers, the shooting occurring in front of his friends and children.
Miraculously, Blake survived but is now paralyzed after one bullet severed his spinal
column. Blake's father, also called Jacob, wept as he described the incident as
"senseless attempted murder,"
and said he had no faith that the police officers involved would be held to
justice. The suspects are currently on administrative leave, a status which
amounts to a paid vacation.
The shooting was denounced by a great number of human and civil rights groups. The American Civil
Liberties Union, for instance, described it as a "disgusting act of police brutality."
"With each of the seven shots fired, police made their intent clear-they believed they had the
right to kill an unarmed Black man for the crime of walking away from them," said Jeffery
Robinson, director of the ACLU's Trone Center for Justice and Equality.
Seeing as the teenage militiaman has not even been apprehended, it appears
far-right groups might also be able to kill with impunity in Trump's America.
Feature photo | Police in riot gear clear a park during clashes with