Absolute rubbish. In the projects they would kill people all the time and just
walk away. People die every day in the projects and it matters to no one
because for the most part we never existed to begin with. We were born at home
with no documents and some of us never went to school. When we died we were
just another sack of meat. What about witnesses you ask? Ah, as usual no one
saw nothing since if they did they would be next.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 2:56 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer "We
Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
If they beat up someone that is one thing, but if they shoot someone that is
kind of hard to cover up.
___
Carl Sagan
“Every aspect of Nature reveals a deep mystery and touches our sense of wonder
and awe. Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to
nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will
prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront
the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the
Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will
penetrate its deepest mysteries.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
On 8/28/2020 1:23 AM, Frank Ventura wrote:
I really seriously question any "statistics" about police violence. Who is
doing the counting? When the cops would beat up or kill someone in the
projects they just walk away and no official record of it is made. So any
"statistics" that are available are made up by the cops themselves and we
know how honest they are.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 10:20 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
I read so many articles that it is kind of hard to keep in mind where I read
a particular thing. But recently I read an article that included some
statistics about the racial and ethnic background of people who get shot by
cops. I could have read this on this very list, but I don't remember. The
article concentrated mostly on Chicago, but it mentioned statistics of the
same thing nationally too. I don't recall New York City being specifically
mentioned, but it may have been. Anyway, it said that the number of people
who were shot were pretty close for Blacks and whites, but given the
proportion of each race in the population and the proportion of each race
that have encounters with the police and the frequency of those encounters
the rate at which Black people are shot was tremendously greater than that of
white people. There was also discussion of other races and ethnicities.
Hispanics were shot proportionally a lot more than white people, but not
quite at as high a rate as Black people. Some Googling around might find the
article or, if it doesn't, might find the statistics. I don't care to do that
right now because it is getting late and I am still trying to catch up on
email after spending most of yesterday afternoon on the phone with a
technical support guy about my AOL mail suddenly not working with
Thunderbird, but if you want to do the Googling you just might find the exact
figures.
___
Carl Sagan
“Every aspect of Nature reveals a deep mystery and touches our sense of
wonder and awe. Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who
pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human
beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather
than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and
structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes
and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
On 8/27/2020 6:36 PM, Frank Ventura wrote:
Miriam, while you can read anything you want to read or listen to any
podcast you want to listen to, until you have lived it you just ain't lived
it. It doesn't surprise me that the media wants you to believe that blacks
are victimized by cops in higher numbers than Hispanics. The media in all
its forms (left, right, or indifferent) are there to protect the financial
status quo. Can you imagine if the media really reported how many Hispanics
are killed in NYC by cops each year? That would cause an almost
instantaneous response from the city's largest growing population segment
that could cripple the economy overnight. Blacks just don't have the
population numbers. The signs on the buildings and even the street signs in
the neighborhood I lived in were in Spanish, not creole. There really aren't
a large population of blacks compared to Hispanics in the Bronx. As I said
previously, I think we are talking about different eras when it comes to the
NYC Police. Queens and Brooklyn in the '50s and '60s is a very different
experience than the Bronx in the "70s and '80s. During the time I lived
there I saw very few white cops. Most of the few white cops that were there
were all older veterans. One thing that was true then and is still from what
I have been told from friends I still have there is that cops who get caught
doing really bad stuff like rape or murder are transferred to the Bronx to
sweep the issue under the table. The Bronx is by far the poorest borough.
Most of the 2.1 million folks live at or below the poverty level. It is the
borough that almost has no media attention and the people have no voice now
that there is no more graffiti on the subway cars. If it weren't for the
Yankees most folks would never even know the Bronx exists. When the really
bad cops get transferred to precincts in the Bronx, they view that as some
sort of punishment and lash out by punishing the residents of the Bronx
right back, usually by shaking them down for money. When people can't pay,
the violence starts. It doesn't matter how light or dark your skin is, if
you are poor in the Bronx your chance of survival is low. The media's
narrative that it a white versus black thing is a clever means for the
corporate elites to divide and conquer. I know what you mean by joining the
mob (not mafia) as a way out. My mother never wanted that for me. In 1980 I
witnessed the cops kill my 85 year old unarmed grandfather because my mother
didn't have any money to pay them, what we used to call the "dropsies" which
is kiddie-slang for a payment to the cops in poor neighborhoods. I knew that
they could kill my mother next if we didn't have more money for them. I used
to go to school crying every day because I knew I could come home and find
her dead or maybe just gone. A few years later I learned to steal cars from
some of my neighbors and I gave the money to my mother for the cops. She
thought I was cleaning bathrooms in gas stations, which of course, would not
have paid enough to keep her alive. I used to sell the cars to a chop shop
at the end of Zerega Avenue just past the old sanitation department depo.
That is the same sanitation department depot where every other Friday (pay
day) my mother used to hustle the garbage men to earn a few more bucks since
her teacher pay couldn't keep up with '70s era inflation and 5 mouths to
feed. The cruel irony is that the stolen car gig taught me enough technology
skills to advance high into the upper levels of the auto repair industry and
a way out that few folks would have. For both my mother and her parents, who
lost everything in the depression, they knew there was no means for them out
of the South Bronx in their lifetimes. However, they all found it in death
as they are all buried in St. Mary's cemetery in Flushing Queens and not in
the Bronx. Of course, they fared better than my younger sister, who
disappeared when I was 5 or my paternal grandfather who fell into a cement
vat where he worked in Jersey and is probably buried under some parking lot
or building foundation somewhere. None of this is easy to write about these
days.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 2:12 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Interesting. The news stories about New York City and cops and who gets
stopped and frisked and who gets killed, are rather different from what you
describe. From my work in adoptions, (I had a number of police officers and
retired police officers as clients), and my personal experiences, most of
the cops in the city are white, and they come from Long Island and Staten
Island. The husband of the woman who took me shopping in her car and did
errands for me for more than 20 years, was a NYC cop. He was Irish American
and came from Nassau County. My son-in-law's father was a NYC detective who
lived in Levittown. He was German American. These men and all their friends
and associates were white, not black or Latino or Chinese, although I know
that there certainly are black, Latino, and Asian NYC cops.
My husband was Italian American. He was blind from about 3 years of age and
he was 17 years older than I. He attended a residential school for the
blind, then Brooklyn College, and later, graduate school in Michigan. He
told me that if he hadn't been blind, he would have been a member of the
Mafia because that was the path to success for Italian kids when he was
growing up. His family was Sicilian. He had very fair skin.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 1:46 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Miriam, the cops don't know I am white. I grew up in a neighborhood that is
greater than 90 percent Hispanic and I speak with an obvious heavy Hispanic
accent and even occasionally throw in a word or two is Spanish without
knowing it. My skin is very dark. If you were to encounter me without
knowing me you would either think Puerto Rican or Dominican, and yes cops in
NYC kill Hispanics too. Even after they would shoot me they would pull my
wallet out and see my last name is "Ventura" which is an Hispanic name. Do
you think they would do a DNA test before they shoot me? So I ask you how do
you think the cops would know that I was Italian? What you don't know that
many times during my 26 years of living in the Bronx I have been at gunpoint
and when questioned by cops I started to reply in English. That usually
infuriated them and several times they cut me off and told me not to speak
"their" language. From the '80s on there are really very few Irish or
Italian cops In NYC. The force is very representative of the cultural makeup
of NYC; meaning mostly Hispanic with some black, Asian and white members.
This indicates that a diverse police force doesn't cure the inherent racism
in policing, because no matter what race, color or creed you are before you
join the force as soon as you do your race now becomes not white nor black,
but blue; hence the racist mantra of "blue lives matter". As far as your
question about cops only killing black folks without provocation; was that
made in jest? If so I don't think it was funny. The majority of unarmed
folks killed by police are not black in NYC. The folks are killed in the
same makeup as the population with Hispanics being the largest group by far.
When I was growing up in the South Bronx neighborhood of Castle Hill, on my
block only myself and Ritchie Castro were the only two male kids to make it
out alive. Both of us knew from a very early age that when a cop car was on
the block we got face down on the pavement, spread eagle, and didn't even
flinch. We survived; however other kids who ran away or opened their mouths
weren't so lucky. Probably the closest call I had was when once I was
pulling my cab down the block after my sift. I pulled my cab into the alley
next to the building we lived. I didn't see the two plain clothes cops wo
were back there. That was unusual for me, I was usually pretty good at
knowing when they are coming. One of the two cops took two shots at my cab,
one missed entirely and the other went through the windshield and missed my
head by an inch or so. You speak about cops shooting folks while being
"unprovoked" so in that circumstance were they provoked or not? The first
rule of dealing with cops in NYC is that you *never* look at a cop or make
eye contact. So I looked at the cop; was he provoked? Let me ask you:
How many times have the NYC shot your relatives to death?
How many times have you had a gun up against your head?
How many times have you been face down on "their" pavement?
How many times has one of their bullets narrowly missed your head?
These are all serious questions and I am very interested in hearing your
answers..
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 12:51 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Frank,
But you are white. You're of Italian extraction, right? So why would they
police shoot you? A lot of police officers, especially here in New York, in
the city, are also of Italian extraction. It's only black people whom they
shoot without provocation, isn't it?
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 6:09 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer
"We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Well lets see if I walked in front of cops carrying a gun I don't think they
would shake my hand. I would die of a led overdose. This is going to sound
paranoid but for a long time I have felt if Trump doesn't win this
November's election he will call upon his right-wing militia buddies to use
force to keep him in office.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 6:59 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer "We
Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly Shootings
Police Told Right-Wing Kenosha Killer "We Appreciate You" Just Before Deadly
Shootings Coordination between police and far-right groups is far from
abnormal but as yesterday's killings show, it is becoming much more
dangerous.
by Alan Macleod
August 26th, 2020
By Alan Macleod
Three people were shot and two died last night in Keshona, Wis, as
right-wing militias hit the streets, shooting demonstrators protesting the
police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday. After two nights of angry
demonstrations, Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers, who originally described the
event as a "merciless" act of police cruelty, called in the National Guard
and declared a state of emergency. However, along with the National Guard
came large numbers of right-wing militia groups, existing relatively
harmoniously with law enforcement. Far-right news organizations and websites
had earlier signal boosted the Kenosha Guard militia's call for
reinforcements to come to "protect lives and property."
Last night's killings were filmed and immediately posted on social media. In
one video, protesters fight with an armed militiaman, who fires at three
people at point blank range, killing two. He then hurries from the scene,
"repeating "I just killed someone," retreating back towards police lines,
still carrying his rifle. Even as the crowd shout to the police that the
killer is coming towards them, they ignore him, instead instructing the
protesters to get out of the way.
The shooter has been widely identified as a 17-year-old boy. From his public
Facebook page, it is clear that he idolizes the police, his profile picture
being a "Blue Lives Matter" logo with him in the center, holding a rifle.
Virtually every post he made is about either the police or guns. As of
Wednesday morning, he is still at large. Footage taken earlier in the night
shows the teenager bragging that he and his crew "don't have non-lethal"
ammunition with them.
Another video shows them fraternizing with heavily militarized police, who
offer them water and tell him "we appreciate you guys, we really do,"
evidence which might explain why he was neither shot nor even arrested after
killing two people right in front of dozens of law enforcement officers.
Speaking about the shooting, Lieutenant Governor of the State of Wisconsin,
Mandela Barnes said that "we can't even act surprised that this happened."
Barnes said that it had become normal to see heavily armed militia in
public, adding,
In many instances, these people have been led on by various conspiracy
theories that have ruminated on the internet, and these people are demanding
to have their country back. And to assume that nothing bad is going to
happen, to assume that these people are up to - or, have the most fine
intentions, is completely ridiculous."
Not an isolated incident
Coordination between police and far-right groups is far from abnormal.
During the George Floyd protests, Oregon police associated with groups such
as the Proud Boys, video showing one officer asking the group to hide in a
building because they were about to start gassing protesters, but to do it
"discreetly," as they did not want to be seen as "playing favorites."
Another Oregon officer was caught on camera flashing the "White Power" hand
gesture at right-wing counter demonstrators.
In June, a Seattle man drove his car at high speed into anti-racist
protesters, opening fire at the crowd. He then calmly leaves his vehicle and
walks over to police lines, where they shield him, turning their backs on
the armed killer to face the crowd. That they appeared totally unconcerned
at this is a sign of how confident they were that they were in no danger. As
activist news outlet It's Going Down noted, "Such a relationship allows the
police to use far-right groups as an auxiliary force against social
movements."
A study published last year by Injustice Watch found that 20 percent of
police officers nationwide have shared egregiously racist material or
content glorifying police violence against protesters on their public
Facebook accounts. This figure rises to 40 percent of retired cops. Rarely
is any action taken against officers sharing this content. On the other
hand, a Massachusetts officer was recently fired for sharing a pro-Black
Lives Matter social media post.
The shooting of Jacob Blake
The events of last night were sparked by an incident on Sunday, where an
unarmed black man, Jacob Blake, was shot from point blank range in the back
at least seven times by police officers, the shooting occurring in front of
his friends and children. Miraculously, Blake survived but is now paralyzed
after one bullet severed his spinal column. Blake's father, also called
Jacob, wept as he described the incident as "senseless attempted murder,"
and said he had no faith that the police officers involved would be held to
justice. The suspects are currently on administrative leave, a status which
amounts to a paid vacation.
The shooting was denounced by a great number of human and civil rights
groups. The American Civil Liberties Union, for instance, described it as a
"disgusting act of police brutality." "With each of the seven shots fired,
police made their intent clear-they believed they had the right to kill an
unarmed Black man for the crime of walking away from them," said Jeffery
Robinson, director of the ACLU's Trone Center for Justice and Equality.
Seeing as the teenage militiaman has not even been apprehended, it appears
far-right groups might also be able to kill with impunity in Trump's America.
Feature photo | Police in riot gear clear a park during clashes with