Miriam,
No problem with what you say. And I agree that some presidents like
LBJ were people I would never invite to Thanksgiving dinner. But in
LBJ's case, as well as with FDR, they exhibited a level of social
awareness that other presidents did not have, in spite of their
facades. Speaking of FDR, whom I remind you was our family Saint,
when I was a boy, it was years before I realized that he dealt with
the Dixicrats. turning a blind eye and deaf ear to the problems of the
Negroes, and his racist behavior toward the Japanese Americans.
I become impatient with people who say, "It might not be perfect, but
our form of government is better than any others".
Carl Jarvis
On 11/12/19, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl,
I differentiate between the fact that all of the presidents are part of, and
represent a flawed system that doesn't serve all of its citizens, and a
President who openly flouts the law and the moral values that he is supposed
to be upholding. There's a difference between someone who harbors racist
feelings and a president who exhibits them openly and encourages them in
others, from a man who is a typical male chauvinist, and one who openly
sexually abuses large numbers of women and brags about it. I'm sure that
every wealthy person has found ways of skirting the law, but Trump does it
brazenly and openly. It is a terrible mistake, both ethically and
pragmatically, not to have attempted to publicly stop him from continuing,
regardless of whether or not the people who are doing the impeaching are
free of sin. And by the way, LBJ, one of the two presidents who got social
legislation passed, was a real bastard of a human being, just in case you
forgot. He was a bully and he treated people horribly. But he passed
important legislation that helped people and he hid or suppressed his
racism. We don't expect our presidents to be saints. There were FDR's extra
marital relationships, as well as the many that JFK had. But both those men,
and the press, kept their frolicks under wraps because we expect a certain
demeanor and dignity from our presidents.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 6:36 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Why
working people shouldn’t join the liberals’ impeachment crusade
gree. "the reason given for impeachment is inadequate."
Why? Because regardless of the reason, impeachment will solve nothing at
all. Yes, I do believe that Donald Trump has "earned" the right to face
impeachment. Yes, I believe that Donald Trump is unstable. Yes, I believe
that he is corrupt, self serving, a womanizer, a narcissistic bully and
more. But some of those who sit in judgement of Donald Trump are cut from
the same cloth, and serve the same Master. .
Even if Donald Trump goes to excesses, at the core he is just another of the
"good old boys". Although I do not oppose impeachment, nothing will change,
fundamentally. In my entire 84 years there has never been a president who
was not under the spell of the Ruling Class. Nor a Congress. The
Establishment never gave up control. Even under duress in the 30's and
40's, FDR made changes on behalf of the Establishment by convincing the
Ruling Class that in order to survive they must give back some of their
gains. Since 1932 only two presidents have taken measures that provided
relief to the Lower and Working Classes: FDR and LBJ.
Today all indications are that the Great American Empire is falling in on
itself, and there is little we, the Working Class can do to prevent it. If
we try, and many have, we are attacked by the bully boys of the
Establishment, and jailed for all the reasons that should be calling us
Heroes.
Carl Jarvis
On 11/12/19, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
So I see impeachment differently and I have mixed feelings about it.
I accept that we are living in an unfair, degraded corporate system,
but here it is. Given the history and culture of the US and the
financial and military power of the ruling elite, I sincerely doubt
that this system will be overthrown by a peaceful or not so peaceful,
socialist revolution. It's more likely to be taken over by the Fascist
Right. However, impeachment is a recognized means for bringing to
justice, a public official who has completely disregarded the norms
and rules of government. From the day he took office, Trump did that
in terms of his implementation of racist policies, his public
statements which incited people to violence, his clear disrespect for
recognized norms and rules, his blatant use of his office to enrich
himself and his family, his installation of family members in
government positions for which they weren't qualified, and his
demonstrated disrespect for a free press. There were his manipulation
of funds to pay off women who might damage his reputation, his use of
a private security force in addition to the secret service, all kinds
of stuff. I just don't think that those things should have been
allowed to proceed without immediate moves to stop him, and that would
either be impeachment or removal from office because of mental
incompetence. Neither Republicans nor Democrats would do what
obviously had to be done, because of political reasons. The Democrats
chose, what they thought would be, a more acceptable path, but which was
obviously stupid. Now, it's just too late and politically dumb, and again,
the reason given for impeachment is inadequate.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 1:23 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Why working people shouldn’t join the
liberals’
impeachment crusade
Commenting on the below article. I am so glad that the Militant
published this article making it clear that they do not support Donald
Trump in any way. These articles expressing disdain for the
impeachment drive have been making me very uncomfortable. I could see
that they were not expressing support for Trump, but I was afraid that
it was not clear to everyone and I can't blame Virginia Wilkinson for
thinking that the Militant did support Trump. It really seemed to be
coming close to that.
I am not a supporter of impeachment myself. The reasons given here for
not giving impeachment our support are legitimate enough, but in my
case I just don't see it as our fight. It is a question of squabbling
among the bourgeoisie and if Trump is impeached or if Trump is removed
from office it really doesn't effect the rest of us all that much. I
don't see that Mike Pence would be any better than Trump. But having
disdain for the impeachment drive is a far cry from supporting Trump.
I can only say that I would really like the Militant to make that as
clear?? in every article about that subject as it does in this article.
https://themilitant.com/2019/11/09/why-working-people-shouldnt-join-th
e-liberals-impeachment-crusade/
Reply to a reader
Why working people shouldn???t join the liberals??? impeachment
crusade
??By Terry Evans
Vol. 83/No. 42
November 18, 2019
In a letter to the Militant?? reader Virginia Wilkinson says she
started reading the paper for its good labor coverage, but cannot
???sympathize with your support for Donald Trump, who has shown no
signs of genuine support for working people.???
But the Militant?? has never offered one ounce of support to the
president.
For 90 years since it first came out, the Militant?? has never backed
any Democrat, Republican or other capitalist politician. And there is
no question Donald Trump ??? a real estate mogul ??? rules for the
propertied class.
The Militant?? campaigned in every 2016 issue for Alyson Kennedy, the
Socialist Workers Party candidate for U.S. president, and urged
workers to break from the two parties of capitalist rule, the
Democrats and Republicans, no matter who they nominated.
The paper???s headline that Wilkinson cites ??? ???Liberals Drive to
Oust Trump Built on Fear of Working Class??? ??? accompanies an
article that explains, ???All wings of the Democratic Party, like
Trump and all the Republicans, defend the interests of the country???s
capitalist rulers at home and stand ready to wield Washington???s
military might to advance their interests abroad.??? And the
Militant?? champions battles by labor and all those oppressed and
exploited against the bosses, their politicians and the government in
power that serves them, including Trump???s.
But there are crucial questions for working people in opposing the
campaign of the liberals and their craven media that seek to overturn
the 2016 election. Their real target is the working people who voted
for Trump, or who couldn???t bring themselves to vote for any of the
bosses???
candidates.
This includes millions of workers Hillary Clinton called
???deplorable,???
who were looking for a change from what successive Democratic and
Republican administrations have done to aid the bosses in their assaults
on workers.
These attacks have not let up during the so-called economic recovery
that followed the 2007 financial crisis. Millions were drawn to vote
for someone like Trump, who stood outside the factions of both
bourgeois parties, and who demagogically claimed he would halt the
carnage facing working people and ???drain the swamp??? in Washington.
The liberals ??? who have backed the capitalist rulers??? drive to
boost profits whenever they???ve been in office ??? think they???re
entitled to ???regulate??? and control the lives of the rest of us,
especially those who don???t vote the way they think we should.
Democratic Congressman Al Green says the reason Trump must be
impeached is to prevent people from reelecting him.
Rising fear of working people
Liberals along with the ruling rich have a rising fear of working people.
They fear us because growing numbers of working people recognize that
the bosses and their parties have no solution to the crisis of their
system that doesn???t involve making workers pay. This has made more
workers open to fighting declining living and working conditions and
to discussing an independent working-class political road forward.
The capitalist rulers fear coming working-class struggles ??? battles
in which our confidence in our own capacities will grow, as we acquire
consciousness of ourselves as a fighting class with interests in
common with other workers worldwide.
The Militant?? tells the truth about the methods used by the liberals
in their witch hunt of the president that are dangerous for the working
class.
These include using and praising Washington???s political police, the
FBI and CIA; grand juries and secret star chamber ???hearings???; and
hearsay claims from secret witnesses you have no chance to confront or
refute.
All these are features of the capitalist ???justice??? system that???s
regularly used against workers. But in this case it involves an effort
to impeach and indict a capitalist politician who was elected to the
presidency. They???re taking steps to limit the franchise to prevent
us ???voting the wrong way.???
They trample on constitutional protections working people have fought
for???
from the Bill of Rights to the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to the U.S.
Constitution conquered in the second American Revolution. These are
crucial to protect our ability to discuss and act in our own class
interests without government disruption. The anti-Trump ???resistance???
sets precedents to be used against fighting workers and opponents of
Washington???s wars as the crisis of capitalism deepens, as the rulers
have done time and time again.
Opposing the liberals??? drive to oust the president can???t be
equated with giving him one iota of political support. Working people
have nothing to gain from relying on the bosses, their parties or
their government, and everything to win by organizing ourselves
independently of them to fight for our own class interests. Jealously
guarding our hard-won rights is a cornerstone of working people???s line
of march forward.
In This Issue
Front Page Articles ???Asarco strike deserves support of all workers
???US-Chinese rulers??? rivalry grows despite new trade deal
??????Break from bosses 2-party system, build a labor party???
???New book ???The Turn to Industry??? boosts fall ???Militant,???
book drive ???Why working people shouldn???t join the liberals???
impeachment crusade ???California blackout, fire show need for workers
control of power companies
Feature Articles ???Iraqi protests grow, demand halt to Tehran???s
interference ???Socialist Workers Party 2020 campaign program
Also In This Issue ???As competition heats up, retail bosses tell
workers, ???Speed up???
???DC meeting: ???US hands off Cuba and Venezuela???
???UK election: ???Workers need our own political party???
???Fight continues to keep last abortion clinic in Missouri ???Israel
protest: ???Don???t deport Filipino classmates???
???Courts back two capitalist parties??? ballot monopoly ???After GM
workers settle, workers at Ford debate, vote on new contract ???Fall
Campaign to sell Militant subscriptions and books (week 4)
???Socialist Workers Party Fund Drive (week 4)
Books of the Month ??????Communism is not a doctrine, but a movement???
25, 50 and 75 years ago
Letters
?? Copyright 2019 The Militant?? -?? 306 W. 37th Street, 13th floor
-?? New
York, NY 10018?? -?? themilitant@xxxxxxx
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Okay, thank
--
---
David Hume
??? In our reasonings concerning matter of fact, there are all
imaginable degrees of assurance, from the highest certainty to the
lowest species of moral evidence. A wise man, therefore, proportions
his belief to the evidence. ???
??? David Hume,