7.5.1.1 DEFENDER RETIREMENT INTO CITY: Any forces or portion o 1f
forces upon whom an attack is declared may immediately retire into any
friendly controlled or vacant, and unbesieged city in that area but not so as
to exceed that city's garrison capacity
nowhere seen anything about moving, exchanging, detaching, absorbing
just retiring. to me it is different, and "retirement" is connected to battle.
as i get it, this movement has nothing to do with 7.3 LAND MOVEMENT STEP.
it is clearly a result of such a movement thus not necessary to be treated the
same way.
moreover,
7.5.1.1.4: A city must be able to hold all of the factors of entire corps that
move in (plus any other factors that may be in or moved into the city).
it clearly mentions factors and corps.
I'm sorry, but i will insist on my view.
________________________________
From: eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf
of Makis Xiroyannis <makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 21:44
To: eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [eiagreek] Re: dropping factors when attacked
Nope, I am afraid you are both wrong. I solved the riddle finally:
5.2.3 TRANSFER OF ARMY FACTORS: During an Army Reinforcement
Step unbesieged corps in the same area may exchange factors as desired,
capacity permitting. Corps of different nationalities (including different
minors or a major power and a minor country) may not exchange factors.
This is the only time during a Turn that army factors may be exchanged
except to detach and absorb garrison factors (see 7.3.3). Army factors may
also be exchanged with garrisons in the same area during this step, the
same as in 7.3.3 and, if all factors are detached from a corps, the corps
counter is removed (see 5.2.4). EXCEPTIONS: Feudal, insurrection and
artillery factors may not be exchanged.
The above rule is on reinforcement, and rules out any other army factor
exchange, with the exception of detaching/absorbing garrison factors in 7.3.3.
Fine so far, lets check 7.3.3
7.3.3 MOVING INTO CITIES-DETACHING/ABSORBING FACTORSGARRISONS:
During a major power's Land Movement Step, any
non-artillery, non-feudal or non-insurrection corps may detach factors as
garrisons at, or absorb army factors from, depots hnd/or unbesieged
friendly or vacant cities by reducing or increasing its strength, if the
capacity is there. There is no movement point cost for doing this.
So points here
A) 7.3.3 is on the Land Movement step. The rule Dimitris and Yannis use is on
7.5 (Land Combat) Since 5.2.3 clearly mentions that only reinforcement and
7.3.3 are the times to exchange factors, it means it is not possible at any
other time.
B) Furthermore 7.3.3 mentions this exception happens in a major's power Land
Movement step, meaning its during a phasing player turn.
And as if the above are not enough, here comes 7.3.3.1
7.3.3.1 DETACHING/ABSORBING FACTORS RESTRICTIONS: Regular
infantry and/or militia factors may not be detached or absorbed in an area
containing enemy corps outside a city.
I believe the above prove 7.5.1.1 viewed in isolation is wrong. It is a pitty
we have to read several paragraphs of different sections in order to understand
something, but there it goes.
"Portion of forces" means whole corps.
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Yannis Sykamias
<ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Yes, I agree Makis, this rule gives the defender the advantage of deciding
based on the force moving against him whether he intends to “give” a pp in
siege or not (provided the city does not have any flech). But as it is written
there is no reference to portion of army.
________________________________
From: eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf
of Makis Xiroyannis
<makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 8:59:17 PM
To: eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [eiagreek] Re: dropping factors when attacked
in any case I will check the rules again, but as I don't see anyone else
replying/caring I will not push the subject
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:57 PM, Makis Xiroyannis
<makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Ok I see where you stand. But I think it refers to whole corps when it speaks
for "portion of forces".
Lets take an example: A French corps with 20 infantry is attacked in an area
where there is an empty city with four spires (but no fletch). As a French
player I do not like the odds of the attacking army, so I decide to place 19
infantry inside the city after you move and declare the attack. This way, even
if you win the siege against 19 French infantry, you will not even get a PP
because the corps never retreated inside - it didn't have to. And I did that
after seeing what you had sent against me. Can I do that?
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:03 PM, Yannis Sykamias
<ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I agree with Dimitris, the rule allows for a portion of defender’s forces to
retire in the city. Since there is no explicit definition of portion of
“something” I can accept that it allows for factors from a corps to retire in
the city while the corps remains outside.
________________________________
From: eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf
of Dimitris Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:23:38 PM
To: eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [eiagreek] Re: dropping factors when attacked
in Lille i followed the rule
7.5.1.1 DEFENDER RETIREMENT INTO CITY: Any forces or portion o 1f
forces upon whom an attack is declared may immediately retire into any
friendly controlled or vacant, and unbesieged city in that area but not so as
to exceed that city's garrison capacity
to me it was clear that as a defender i had this right.
if this should be interpreted in a different way, you have my opinion, the
stage is yours.
________________________________
From: eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf
of Makis Xiroyannis
<makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 19:15
To: eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [eiagreek] dropping factors when attacked
Another question that I don't remember if we clarified or what we decided
If a corps is attacked in an area with a city and wants to fight (as opposed to
retreat behind walls) can the defending corps still remove factors from it and
place them into the city?
I thought we could not since defender is not a phasing player, but I saw
Prussia doing that in Lille, shall we play it this way?