[jawsscripts] Re: jaws14 public Beta2, enhancements in Scripting.

  • From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:41:50 +1100

Well! hahaha. of course My exstatic reaction to the proposed below, is 
perhaps going to be most obviously expected/anticipated by many of you!!! 
Who may know that I've been wanting some kind of increased intelligent way 
of getting at/interpreting  BitMap portions of onscreen data, for years and 
years now! and marking those for future hotspots, sounds to me like a simply 
awesome enhancement for HSC!

So I'm gunna say, fantastic Idea! I'd simply love to see an enhancement 
that utilized attempted OCR texted stuff!

Total Yay!

So I guess we can't discuss up here more of a scope for how that would 
precisely get implemented?

Like I was a tad confused Jim, about what I understood you to be proposing 
that one would need to
run the feature several times, for each MouseClick attempted?  As it seems 
it was being proposed would be optimal/necessary?

The other thing I would observe though Sortel, re our pdf usage discussion 
for Convenient OCR, was that this precise usage, only for first page PDF 
though,
was actually, the very first example usage of the feature that erric brought 
up for it, in his FSCast 058 in Sept 2011?

And you know what else he said there?  He straight up acknowledged that in 
it's initial release, that one couldn't copy the text and paste it anywhere, 
nor would they virtualize it for people, but he did say that was something 
they planned to implement.
I thought that would be a really helpful feature too, but to my knowledge 
that hasn't been implemented throughout the last year either.

I too haven't found convenient OCR to be nearly as helpful as I was hoping 
for though, mirroring Jim's findings on this.
When I was panting for this onScreen OCR feature
many years ago though, I was always told that the, "signal to noise," or in 
other words the sheer onscreen contrast for OCR work, would be way too low 
for anywhere near decently reliable  results, which was what someone else up 
here said couple days ago, re seeking to compare an onScreen rendering, to 
what fineReader might do to a raw image pdf file?

However, I noted too, that FineReader, around 7.0 also had a small separate 
little OnScreen OCR utility, which didn't seem to render great results 
either.
But the fact that both FineReader and Jaws are trying it, suggests to me 
that they are obtaining better results than we seem to be.  Which begs the 
question as to whether there's more to this pup than meets the ey? More that 
might be done to improve it's reliability etc?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Snowbarger" <Snowman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:02 PM
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: jaws14 public Beta2, enhancements in Scripting.


>I think, what you have is the text, the location at which it was found, 
>it's
> attributes and colors.
> But, you don't know what kind of window it resided in, or control it was
> associated with unless you go look.
> You can do all that with existing technology, except for the OCR portion.
> I don't know about you guys, but I have not had much luck with 
> inconvenient
> OCr.  Usually, it makes lots of mistakes, or misses text altogether.
>
> But, assuming the best about that, one wonders whether you could turn it
> loose on your favorite bit mapped wizzy application, and go drink a cup of
> coffee.  Then, when you came back, you might be able to use the OCR 
> rendered
> text to perform a single mouse click, at which point you would repeat the
> process until desired results were achieved, or coffee overload, whichever
> came first.
> Well, Ok, maybe that might interfere with the creative process.
>
> Seriously though, how about an enhancement to something like the toolTip
> scanner in HotSpotClicker, which builds a list of fired toolTips, as a
> result of a painfully slow mouse scan, and the locations  at which they 
> were
> detected.
> This guy would use the .xml as a database of OCR-rendered text chunks, 
> what
> they said, and where they were.  And, you could take the jaws cursor to 
> each
> of them in turn, click there, and decide if anything useful happened.  If 
> it
> did, then it might be a place you would want to save, assign a name to, 
> and
> use in the proper context.   It would help something like HSC deal with
> totally graphical apps that do not support toolTips.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@xxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:57 AM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: jaws14 public Beta2, enhancements in Scripting.
>
>
> Hi,  I am thinking that this can be used for finding text and trigger 
> points
> on the screen.  My guess this is what they use for the convenient OCR and
> now they have made it available to us.  We just need to figure out how to
> parse it and implement what we want to achieve with it.
> Could the string returned be used to display its content in the results
> viewer and from there we could activate buttons etc?
> I haven't taken the time to play with it so I am just throwing some 
> thoughts
> out there.
> Tom Bisset
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stefan Moisei
> Sent: October 7, 2012 4:02 AM
> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: jaws14 public Beta2, enhancements in Scripting.
>
> I don't know fs's intended use for this function, but I know how I might 
> use
> it.
> The screen xml output includes OCR text, if existent. It is marked as OCR 
> in
> the xml. One can copy it, I guess one can also trigger OCR on a specific
> event and get the new text with this.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Snowbarger
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 4:55 AM
> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: jaws14 public Beta2, enhancements in Scripting.
>
> Very interesting.  The next thing will be how to make use of this .xml
> information.
> Basically, this is our equivalent of print screen.
> If I understand, from this, you can get all text, including text color and
> attributes.  You don't get graphics, and don't know anything about window
> boundaries.
>
> What is actually the intended purpose of this?  Anybody know?
>
> One idea that comes to mind is that, if a client wanted to pass you a 
> screen
> shot, they could capture this .xml information, and send it to you.  You, 
> as
> a script developer, have some clever tool that decodes the XML jibberish,
> and renders it in some familiar form, a web page, or a virtual viewer, or
> something like that.
> Does something already exist?  Or, do I feel a utility coming on.
> Sounds like a nice addition to my JLS_utilities, and/or Doug's BX.
>
> JLS actually has a means of collecting the window structure from a 
> client's
> machine, including window attributes, such as boundary coordinates, style,
> type, class etc, and even the text in each window, done of course only 
> under
> the control of the client.  But, they basically create a big data file 
> that
> they send to me.  I put JLS in a special mode where all the window
> navigation functions, GetFocus, GetPriorWindow, GetNextWindow etc, all
> consult the data file, rather than my own system.
> The missing piece was color and attributes for the text.
> This would supplement that.
>
> Of course, we still don't have pixel colors in non-textual areas.  But, 
> I'm
> getting the disturbing impression that precious information like that may 
> be
> becoming harder to obtain.  ,sigh>
>
> Anyway, back to the original.  Does anybody know the intended means of
> interfacing with the XML data?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 2:57 AM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] jaws14 public Beta2, enhancements in Scripting.
>
>
> JAWS 14 includes a new scripting function for obtaining screen content in
> XML format. For more information on using this new function, refer to the
> JAWS 14 includes a new scripting function for obtaining screen content in
> XML format. for further information see:
> http://www.freedomscientific.com/documentation/scripts/scripting-info.asp
>
> Short URL:
>
> http://bit.ly/RFtrUd
> Geoff C.
>
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