[opendtv] Re: CGMS-A issues (was: HDMI issues)
- From: "Kilroy Hughes" <Kilroy.Hughes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:05:20 -0800
I recall a 90 minute time limit being negotiated with CableLabs years
ago for the DFAST agreement intended to cover then hypothetical PVRs
that might be built in cable boxes (that was around the time hard drives
crossed the 40MB barrier). That applied to "copy never" content, but
"copy no more" couldn't be cached. Don't recall the policy on "copy
once". Hard disks have to be encrypted with a device specific binding.
Outputs have to be protected and convey the CCI state (e.g. "copy once"
> "copy no more").
Nobody agrees on what "copy once" or the other two states mean when you
put it to the test. There are pages and pages of legal explanation and
robustness rules in various 5C, DFAST, DVD-CCA, etc. contracts; but when
you try to turn that into machine parseable XML rights expression
language (like MPEG-21 REL), you can't find two broadcasters or movie
studios or CE manufacturers who will agree at that level of precision.
The legal descriptions are ambiguous and don't consider numerous
technical combinations already here or on the way (DRM, P2P, streaming,
IPTV, wireless LAN, UWB, iPOD, SlingBox, 16GB memory sticks, USB, HDMI
...). The experts have explained to me that copy policy and fair use
need to be decided by law suites. That has been the existing practice;
there's almost nothing about fair use in copyright law, unless you're a
library or school. (Home recording rights act was the first real law,
as opposed to "law", like the Betamax decision.)
Any consumer or device that "circumvents" these crude "secure link"
systems is an evil doer under the DMCA, even if the result in a
particular instance is considered "fair use". Copy protection systems
like this don't know what your intended use is, so they have to block
anything they don't understand. With encrypted content (DRM), you can
control at the time and place of use, so copies and connections can be
freely made, but if you email a million copies to friends, they won't
play unless the license allows, or they purchase their own license, etc.
After about a year of "in the clear" HDTV broadcasting, Japan switched
to encrypted broadcast and ID/authentication cards that look like memory
sticks (and they probably had more OTA receivers in use than the US does
now). They knew it was the only way to protect the content. Now they
are discussing relaxing the copy policies defined for "copy once", "copy
never", etc. because the system actually worked and everyone hated it.
(The majority of DVD "players" sold in Japan are actually DVD disc
recorders with hard discs that grab broadcasts on hard disk and allow
burning to optical disc. They used to only encode analog signals, but
newer models grab encrypted ARIB HDTV streams on 250GB or 500GB hard
disks.)
A bunch of Congressmen figured out they should define Fair Use and give
it precedence over DMCA if they legislate Broadcast Flag, but by the
time they get industry agreement on what Fair Use is, the problem may
have died of old age. =20
Kilroy Hughes
Sr. Media Architect
Digital Media Interoperability Team
Microsoft Corporation
-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jeroen Stessen
Let it be known that I am not against copy protection. And I understand=20
why Disney protects its very expensive tapes (and DVDs). But this will=20
lead to the situation that you can not even timeshift a program anymore.
Timeshifting is caching, which is not the same as copying. The program
is=20
typically stored on the harddisk in such a way that it can not (easily)=20
be extracted from it (by a PC) and burned on a DVD. So it is a cache
copy.=20
It can not live outside the recorder. (If everything is well..)=20
A cache copy should not be seen as a real copy. If caching were
forbidden=20
then all Internet Providers would be sued for caching peer-to-peer
traffic=20
and thus distributing copyrighted content. But they are exempted.=20
The least that they (we) could allow is some sort of self-destruct=20
mechanism,=20
where a "No_Copying_Is_Permitted" program is automatically deleted after
having been viewed. Or after so many hours or days of being stored.=20
Whatever.=20
This DVDR3300H always records first to the hard disk, and then you can=20
make a copy to DVD. I know that if it receives a "
One_Generation_Of_Copies_
May_Be_Made" program, then when you copy it to a DVD the original on the
hard disk is automatically deleted. And the copy will probably be marked
"No_Further_Copying_Permitted". Fair enough.=20
Fair enough ? "One Generation of Copies" is not the same as "One Copy" !
This already seems to be a mis-interpretation of the Rules.=20
But why can't we have some sort of exception for a temporary cache copy
on=20
the hard disk for a "No_Copying_Is_Permitted" program ? Surely we do not
want to be denied the joy of timeshifting ?! Are there similar issues
with=20
the Broadcast Flag in the USA ? How is the acceptance by the public ?=20
Best regards,=20
-- Jeroen
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------
---+
| From: Jeroen H. Stessen | E-mail: Jeroen.Stessen@xxxxxxxxxxx |
| Building: SFJ-5.22 Eindhoven | Deptmt.: Philips Applied Technologies
|
| Phone: ++31.40.2732739 | Visiting & mail address: Glaslaan 2 |
| Mobile: ++31.6.44680021 | NL 5616 LW Eindhoven, the Netherlands
|
| Skype: callto:jeroen.stessen | Website:
http://www.apptech.philips.com/=20
|
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------
---+
=20
=20
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