[opendtv] Re: Which Modulation Would You Choose on a really bad day?
- From: John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:04:17 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
I didn't know that AC-3 was optional in Australia. Of course, for
broadcasters, HDTV and SDTV simulcasts aren't optional there.
I simply disagree that Mexico and Canada needed to adopt VSB due to border
issues. I haven't found that argument used in any of the published documents
from the CRTC nor Mexico's COFETEL. (I have limited ability to read Espanol).
Being a resident of Mexico, I would have had no problem with them adopting
DVB-T; I would have welcomed it. And, I live well within the signal area of
San Diego and Los Angeles TV stations.
Also, I should point out again that I'm not a proponent of VSB per se; I deal
in the fact that it's the adopted U.S. standard.
I seem to recall that one of Sinclair's arguments was that by permitting DVB-T
in the U.S., no conflict would be created vis a vis the neighbors to the North
and South. So, that sounds like they also would disagree that the U.S. had to
adopt a standard used in Canada or Mexico. :-)
It's plainly untrue that U.S. DBS systems use DVB-S. One of them -- Echostar
-- does, the larger one doesn't. There are a few DVB in-the-clear units
available, but MPEG-2 in the clear is more common in the sat DX market.
John Willkie
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian Mackenzie <ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Sep 22, 2006 10:39 PM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Which Modulation Would You Choose on a really bad day?
>
>As you well know because of border issues Mexico and Canada had no
>choice
>in selecting a DTV modulation method.
>
>Any settop HD in Australia will work in any other DVB country in HD and
>SD.
>(They have an SD downconverted output as well as the HD outputs)
>This is what is called a STANDARD. Boxes work on 6,7 and 8 Mhz as its
>easier
>for the chipmakers to include this function in their chipsets and with
>DVB
>systems it's basically only a clock frequency change anyway.
>I don't know what you are on about relating to audio, Australian DTV
>uses
>MPEG-2 just like any other DVB-T system does. AC-3 is optional in
>additional
>To MPEG.
>I can (and have) bought a dual tuner diversity mobile DTV mobile
>receiver
>on the internet from Germany. It works perfectly here in Australia.
>
>The big joke is that DBS worldwide uses DVB including the USA systems.
>OK not COFDM but the DVB-S system used is all part of the integrated
>DVB solution of DVB-T, DVB-S, DVB-C and DVB-H.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of John Willkie
>Sent: Saturday, 23 September 2006 6:39 AM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Which Modulation Would You Choose on a really bad
>day?
>
>So, you now have an excuse? a rationalization?
>
>Why is it obvious that Mexico and Canada have to use the U.S. system?
>Does Mexico have to have the same region coding for DVDs that the U.S.
>has? (It doesn't)
>
>Does Canada have to have the same DBS system that the U.S. uses? (They
>don't, and have made it illegal for Canadian systems to be shipped to
>the U.S. and vice-versa.)
>
>Australia is definitely a COFDM outlyer. By the way, if I buy an
>Australia HDTV system, will it receive HDTV when I move it to the U.K?
>Will it be able to process MPEG-2 audio? Australia, to draw the
>important distinction, is the only COFDM country where the government
>doesn't distort the media marketplace, or where the privatization of
>media happened in the recent past.
>
>Yes, COFDM works in mobile environments. So will Super-8 film. It's
>just unlikely to be a profitable service in the near or medium term
>because eyeballs away from home are seldom free to watch a video screen
>for more than a few minutes per day. This is not to dis mobile digital
>media (audio and data services) just the stupid video-centric ones.
>
>Ah, HDTV on satelite. That's the canard. There's more HDTV on
>satellite on either of the U.S. DBS systems than in the rest of the
>world. I haven't checked Sky Mexico recently, but they can't be far
>behind. Nor StarExpress and ExpressVu in Canada.
>
>If I'm not mistaken, there's more people in S. Korea watching HDTV via
>IP networks than watch Japanese and European HDTV satellite services.
>
>It's all about free media markets, not modulation. Nobody watches
>modulation: they watch content, and the wider and deeper the selections,
>the better. The menu isn't very deep or wide in countries with less
>than free media environments.
>
>So, to sum it up. Mexico, a third world country where only a single
>city (Monterrey) arguably has drinkable water on tap, offers more
>terrestrial HDTV services than all COFDM countries save Australia.
>Combined.
>
>COFDM -- at least for the moment -- equals the third world of
>terrestrial digital media. Or worse.
>
>John Willkie
>
>P.S. I don't particularly care which modulation is used. I look for
>deep and wide selections, and sustainable systems.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ian Mackenzie <ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Sep 22, 2006 2:45 AM
>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Which Modulation Would You Choose on a really
>bad day?
>>
>>Obviously Mexico and Canada have to use whatever the US chooses.
>>
>>Basically the USA and S.Korea are the
>>only takers for ATSC
>>
>>As to HD there are 5 networks with over 80 Stations transmitting full
>>time HD in Australia.
>>They have been for some time and more are coming On line all the time.
>>(not counting translators, repeaters and gap-fillers).
>>
>>HD on satellite in Japan and Europe is also something That's been
>>operating for some time.
>>
>>One doesn't have to give excuses as to whether COFDM will work in
>>mobile or handheld, city, suburban or urban environments, it just does.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>On Behalf Of John Willkie
>>Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006 2:28 PM
>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Which Modulation Would You Choose on a really
>>bad day?
>>
>>falta: (WRONG)
>>
>>ATSC countries (actually transmitting, as we speak) U.S.A; Canada
>>Mexico, S. Korea. NO COFDM. Taiwan (not exactly a country) is an ATSC
>
>>country, but I don't think they're doing much 8-VSB there.
>>
>>That's -- depending on how you count -- four or five ATSC countries.
>>With the exception of S. Korea and Taiwan, they're also countries where
>
>>the government doesn't control most (or everything) in media.
>>
>>not a mere coincidence, I'd say.
>>
>>There are more commercial HDTV stations operating in Tijuana, Mexico
>>today than there will be testing facilities in Paris in short order.
>>More HDTV stations in Tijuana, Mexico than there are in all of Europe.
>>That is, there are two, with a third in short order. And, they've only
>
>>just begun on the 18 year transition to digital in Mexico. (There are
>>other DTV stations in Mexico.)
>>
>>John Willkie
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Ian Mackenzie <ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Sep 20, 2006 8:29 PM
>>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Which Modulation Would You Choose on a really
>>bad day?
>>>
>>>If I wasn't having a bad day before choosing ATSC I Certainly would be
>
>>>afterwards.
>>>
>>>The whole world except 2 countries uses COFDM in one form or another
>>>for DTT.
>>>
>>>Can't you see who's out of step Doug?
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>On Behalf Of Doug McDonald
>>>Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 7:06 AM
>>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Which Modulation Would You Choose on a really
>>>bad day?
>>>
>>>To reply to the subject line,
>>>
>>>I would choose whichever system gave the most bits at with the least
>>>problems with digital into digital co-channel and adjacent channel
>>>interference.
>>>
>>>This chooses ATSC over DVB-T.
>>>
>>>The reason is simple. A really bad day is one in which tropo ducting
>>>is
>>
>>>strong. This fairly frequently causes, where I live, bad adjacent
>>>channel interference and more rarely co-channel. The 3 dB interference
>
>>>advantage of ATSC can really help.
>>>
>>>Doug McDonald
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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