[vicsireland] Re: Reminder! : We need your views on Irish Braille!
- From: Robbie <robbiesin@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 09:59:55 +0100
The following, which i sent to this list a year ago, could be the basis of an
irish grade 3 braille.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 3, 2013, at 2:08 PM, RobbieS <robbiesin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I've been ruminating on the matter in spare time for a couple of weeks now,
> and I expect to be able to send the following to Pat soon.
>
> My first reaction to suggested changes to the fada-symbols in irish was
> instinctively negative. Like most others, we’ve become familiar with
> something, especially at an early age, it has a strong associational imprint
> on the mind. I also thought that if it ain’t broke, why fix it.
>
> However, compared to English braille (the only other one I’m familiar with),
> Irish braille has far less contractions; thus, slowing legibility, reducing
> the amount of words per line on a braille display or page, and greatly
> increasing the volume, mass and cost of paper brailled books.
>
> So, if Irish braille needs improving, it needs to be made more compact.
> Changing fada symbols from one to two cells has the opposite effect: i.e., it
> must slow legibility and increase size and cost of book-production.
> I have a series of proposals which will greatly compact Irish braille. With
> few exceptions, these proposals have the advantage of being a logical
> extension of what is there already, so it would be very easy for current
> braille-readers (whether or not they knew current Irish braille) to adapt to.
>
> The relative absence of contractions in Irish braille is probably a result of
> the changeability of each word depending on the syntactical context. For
> instence, in English, for instance, nouns tend to come in either single or
> plural and are not visibly affected by being either masculine or femininine;
> nor does English genitive case have a significant effect on the noun.
>
> In verbs too, Irish has much more of a variation depending on the tence and
> person.
>
> The system I propose also overcomes these difficulties in a clear and simple
> way, so that the contraction for a word is slightly altered depending on its
> context, but altered in a logical way.
>
> Each part of all of this only makes complete sense when you understand the
> whole, so please bear with me.
>
> Note 1: The Irish language component of NVDA will soon be compatible with
> braille-displays of whatever type. Any amount of codes can be programmed in,
> according to preference, so those who prefer the current system of braille
> can be catered for. However, unification is still best if we’re talking
> about production of paper brailled material, or sharing displays.
>
> Note 2: All bilingual documents should either be in Grade One braille, or
> else have the second language italicised. Otherwise, the namge of the
> language could be put at the beginning of each line, paragraph or page,
> depending on the type of ducment.
>
> Here are the details:
>
>
> Part One (fadas, séimhiús and urús).
>
> The addition of dot six to a cell will mean that the letter is either a fada
> (if a vowel), or a séimhiú (if a consonant).
>
> For example,:
> á (a fada) = dots 1 and 6 (the old ch).
> bh (b-séimhiú) = dots 1, 2 and 6 (old gh).
> Ch (c-séimhiúí) = dts 1, 4 and 6 (old sh). Etc. etc.
>
> There are two necessary exceptions to this rule. The first is mh (or
> m-séimhiú) which makes the letter x if dot six is added. The second
> exception is ú (u-fada), because the ordinary letter u already contains a dot
> six.
>
> For Grade 2 braille mh m-séimhiú), I would favour the use of the english
> letter w, not least because it approximates to the Irish mh-sound in
> question. I shall address obvious arguments against this in a new thread, if
> necessary. There are other alternatives, but not as elegant.
>
> For ú (u-fada), I propose the English contraction for (dots 1-6 inclusive).
>
> For the urú I propose that lower-case be used as folows:
> mb (b-urú) = dots 2 and 3
> gc (c-urú) = dots 2 and 5.
> nd (d-urú) = dots 2, 5 and 6.
> Bhf (f-urú) = dots 2, 3 and 5.
> ng (g-urú) = dots 2, 3, 5 and 6
> bp (p-urú) = English ou-contraction of dots 1, 2, 5 and 6
> ts (s-urú) = English st (dots 3 and 4).
> Dt (t-urú) = English ing (dots 3, 4 and 6).
>
> Part 2 (one-word contractions)
>
> Single-cell contractions (to be completed):
> This section needs words that don’t change that often, regardless of the
> syntactical context.
>
> c = caint
> h = hoíche
> j = idir
> l = lá
> o = oíche
> s = agus (as in the old Seal ag Léamh schoolbooks if I remember rightly)
> t = tráthnóna
>
> dot five contractions(list to be completed)
> dot 5 b = buachaill. Dot 5 bí = buachaillí; dot 5 bh (that is dot fi.e in
> the first cell and dots 1,2,6 in the second) = bhuachaill (gen. case of
> buachaill).
>
> Dot 5 c = cailín. Dot 5 cí = cailíní. Dot 5 ch (etc.) = chailíní.
>
> Dot 5 d = déan; dot 5 dh = dhéan (for use in compound, see later). Dot 5 +
> lower-case d = ndéan (for use in compound, see later).
>
> Dot 5 e = eitil
>
> Dot 5 f = fear etc.
>
> Dot 5 I = inis
>
> Dot 5 n = aoine
>
> Dot 5 ú = úsáid
>
> Need more time and thought to work through rest, but ye get the idea of these
> examples.
>
> Dots four and six could be used in a preceding cell to form a contraction,
> e.g.,
> Dots 4,6 f = feadh by itself, but at verb endings could equal feadh or fadh,
> depending on the associated verb.
>
> If dots four and six remain associated with conditional verb-endings, this
> could be useful.
>
> For exmple, dots 4,6 N = -fainn or –finn (i.e., the ending of first person
> conditional verbs).
>
> Using various combinations of dots four, five and six before a letter,
> contractions can be found for the following common letter combinations..
>
> -áilte, áite, aide, oide, óide, oidhe, óige, oll, air, aithe, neamh, aise,
> aireacht, eannacht,
>
> the letter w after a consonant at the end of a word could stand for mhar
> e.g., ciallw = ciallmhar.
>
>
>
> I’d propose that the in contraction of dots 3 and 5 remain as is.
> I propose that dothe en contraction of dots 2 and 6 become the Irish
> contraction of ei. By itself, it would be the word ‘eile’.
>
> The ea contraction should remain as is.
>
> dm = dom
> dt = duit
> dn = dúinn
> dbh = dóibh
>
> fn = faoin
>
> lm = liom
> lt = leat
> ln = linn
> lbh = libh (that is, of course, using the single-cell bh, as in all other
> examples).
>
> Many, many more possibilities of combinations and contractions remain, and
> the ones I propose for this system are by no means sacrosanct to me. The
> main thing I want to put across is the possibilities unleashed by using the
> dot six as the fada and séimhiú and the lower-case as the urú.
>
> Insum: As an irish-language speaker, reader and writer, I’d like to spend
> more time on this fascinating project. Microsoft Word 2010, at least, has
> statistics in its find which would help to indicate which patterns of letters
> are more frequent in irish texts (including dictionaries, for example).
>
> Pat Farrell has my number if he’d like to include me in his collaboration.
> There are some problems, for instance, with his single letter contractions,
> which I don’t have the time to detail here, but I’d be happy to discuss my
> opinions (for what their worth) with him, even by phone, if we can arrange a
> mutually agreeable time.
>
> Bye for now,
>
> Robbie
>
>
>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Flor Lynch <florlync@xxxxxx> wrote:
>> I've likewise submitted the following comments by email to pat. In addition,
>> I'll put here the following addenda for consideration or delectation, that
>> have occurred to me since then:
>>
>> L == LE.
>> Lm == LIOM. -
>> Lt == LEAT;
>> -- and so on, through the senses. -- Similarly, dm == DOM; etc.
>>
>> Irish Braille Revisions:
>>
>> I would much prefer to see the existing vowel contractions MAINTAINED in any
>> new code following upon the adoption of UEB.
>>
>> -- I would query some of the word contractions; why b for Bionn, bhíonn,
>> while bí and bhí would remain as they are?
>>
>> - Also, why not use some of the extra lettersigns in english? (e.g., w could
>> stand for BHFUIL; x could stand for TéACS; z for AS, or some other desirable
>> word sounding somewhat like as. K could be used for Cé, or Cá. T for Tá is,
>> for me, is more logical than t for TABHAIR. (I find it a close-run thing,
>> between s for IS and s for AGUS.)
>>
>> - Are any of the group members fast readers of English Braille? I am of
>> course familiar with the fada contractions, so found them much better than
>> the two-sign ó, á, é, etc. The 2-sign fadas impeded my speed/fluency.
>>
>> - Most adult BRAILLE readers in this jurisdiction of ireland aren't yet very
>> or are not at all familiar with the proposed UEBC: so you needed to explain
>> the logic behind changes made because of, and arising from that.
>>
>> FLOR LYNCH
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien O'Connor"
>> <damienmoconnor@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 9:23 PM
>> Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Reminder! : We need your views on Irish Braille!
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Ronan.
>>>
>>> Just to let you know. I received braille and print material from Pat and
>>> have responded.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Damien.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ronan McGuirk
>>> Sent: 02 May 2013 16:52
>>> To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [vicsireland] Reminder! : We need your views on Irish Braille!
>>>
>>> Hi again,
>>>
>>> I am re-posting this query. Can I ask you to express your views on the Irish
>>> Braille code.
>>>
>>> Many thanks!
>>> Ronan
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Ronan McGuirk <ronan.p.mcguirk@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:44:10 +0100
>>> Subject: We need your views on Irish Braille!
>>> To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, vicsireland <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> We need your views on Irish Braille!
>>>
>>> I am writing to you on behalf of the INBAF Irish Braille Working Group.
>>> This working group is charged with the revision of the Braille code used for
>>> the Irish language (Gaeilge).
>>>
>>> The current Irish Braille code is described by the Wikipedia article at
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Braille
>>>
>>> Pat Farrell, a member of the working group, took the initiative of
>>> suggesting comprehensive Irish Braille code revision which has been
>>> discussed by the group over the last year. We now have a full draft version
>>> of a suggested new Irish Braille code which is available in braille and
>>> print and in electronic format (please contact Pat on
>>> patfarrell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for a copy).
>>>
>>> We are especially interested in everyone's views on the suggested new Irish
>>> wordsigns and the two different options for expressing letters with long
>>> accent signs (fadas).
>>>
>>> The objective is to agree on a new code, preserving appropriate elements of
>>> the existing code and developing where needed. In revising the code, the
>>> working group will take into account readability and ease of learning.
>>>
>>> It is really important that all those with an interest inIrish Braille
>>> express their views.
>>>
>>> If you are a reader of Irish in Braille, or would like to read Irish in
>>> Braille, whether in book format or on a Braille display, your views are
>>> important.
>>>
>>> Can you please contact us with your views. Proposed new drafts for trial
>>> will be circulated in due course when agreed by the working group.
>>>
>>> Can you please reply to this mail on the llist with your thoughts, or
>>> email Pat Farrell at the above address with your comments and for a
>>> copy of the new draft.
>>>
>>> Can you please pass this mail on to anyone you know who may have an interest
>>> in Irish in Braille who is not on this list.
>>>
>>> Many thanks
>>> Ronan McGuirk, on behalf of
>>> INBAF Irish Braille Working Group
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>>
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>> To contact the moderator send mail to:
>>
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>>
>> For mor information on the Visually Impaired Computer Society visit:
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>
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