[AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
- From: "Monroe L. King Jr." <monroe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 19:59:23 -0700
Geoff
They look great. Do you have any accelerometer data? Was one of the
launches you did at LDRS 29? I thought I heard a call for a Loki but I
missed the launch I heard it but did not see it.
I noticed that Armadillo Aerospace used a Starute or Balute on one of
their launches I wonder where they got it? I also wonder what recovery
method if any Van Allen used?
This July is the 60th anniversary. I have the 150,000 cft balloon and a
boat and the place for mission control and staging. I want to do a water
launch and recovery off the coast of Texas. The winds a very favorable
that time of year.
Monroe
I also have a private airfield on Matagorda Peninsula and a few pilots
that are itching to do search and recovery.
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
> From: Geoff Huber <geoff.huber@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Sat, August 30, 2014 1:18 pm
> To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> ×
>
> ×
>
> ×
>
>
>
> I've done the Loki dart twice now.. first one had the carbon fiber /AL
> interstage fail.. Case bonded 4" O worked fine. Second dart suffered a
> burn through on the case about 18" up from the nozzle. I have a third
> Loki dart done and a 4th under construction now. Same design as the green
> one in the photos.
>
> Geoff
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Monroe L. King Jr. <
> monroe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Being a machinist the spin launcher does indeed inspire me from an
> > artistic standpoint and would be a proper challenge. It's pretty too!
> >
> > Yeah I'm not looking for a Super Loki the original Loki (also spin
> > launched) is the ticket for a rockoon and there is no spin launcher in
> > that scenario. Perhaps he has an Original Loki? Thanks for the heads up.
> >
> > I meet Mr. Rosenfield at LDRS 29 he seemed like a nice fella I'll ask
> > him about it. It does look like the Warp-9 propellant they sell may be
> > the hottest propellant? It also looks like the propellant was made for
> > the Pegasus perhaps? By the same company that made the Loki.
> >
> > Here is a coupla shots of my progress with Mission Control.
> >
> > Monroe
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
> > > From: Ken Biba <kenbiba@xxxxxx>
> > > Date: Sat, August 30, 2014 9:20 am
> > > To: "arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > >
> > > Gary Rosenfield of AeroTech used to manufacture the Loki booster and
> > indeed has a bunch of the airframes as surplus I believe. He certainly
> > knows the propellant. Suggest you ask if he can help. I do know that if
> > you want he will sell one of surplus airframes - if he still has them.
> > >
> > > The challenge with the Loki is the spin launcher.
> > >
> > > K
> > >
> > > Ken Biba
> > > Novarum
> > > Managing Director and CTO
> > > +14155775496
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Aug 30, 2014, at 7:52 AM, "Monroe L. King Jr." <
> > monroe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > > Thanks for the feed back. I had already asked one manufacture about a
> > > > comparable COTS motor for a Loki and the answer I received was a 5"
> > > > motor. That throws everything off and cost a good deal more.
> > > >
> > > > Besides that I had also mentioned to this manufacture we wanted to
> > > > recreate the Van Allen experiment on the 60th anniversary next July
> > with
> > > > a balloon launched Loki. (what's really funny is now these papers show
> > > > up a week or so after I asked the same guy if he had any hard info on
> > > > the Loki)
> > > >
> > > > Being I already have the balloon- I'm more interested in the standard
> > > > 3" Loki Dart from an expense point of view. If I could just find some
> > > > COTS propellant that burns that fast.
> > > >
> > > > So I guess I need to calculate the burn rate and see what COTS has to
> > > > offer in that ball park. Who has the fastest COTS propellant? Has
> > anyone
> > > > got any hard data on that? I'm sure someone out there in Arocket land
> > > > already know who's got the hottest propellant.
> > > >
> > > > Monroe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> -------- Original Message --------
> > > >> Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
> > > >> From: Bill Claybaugh <wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> Date: Sat, August 30, 2014 6:50 am
> > > >> To: "arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> Cc: "arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Monroe:
> > > >>
> > > >> See below:
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 3:03, "Monroe L. King Jr." <
> > monroe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Question:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Why did not anyone use this method to win the CATS Prize?
> > > >>
> > > >> The RRS "50 mile" dart flew in '96 and appears to have been part of
> > the inspiration for the CATS Prize, so everyone certainly knew about the
> > technique.
> > > >>
> > > >> I cannot say why others did not use a dart, but the RRS team mostly
> > did not see the point: the prize wasn't enough to cover the cost of
> > developing a new rocket bearing in mind that the dart had to carry
> > instruments that--twenty years ago--were too big to fit in less than a 4"
> > diameter dart.
> > > >>
> > > >> That diameter drove the optimal dart mass toward 70+ pounds and thus
> > to a very high thrust and short burn booster.
> > > >>
> > > >> Today's much smaller electronics might make the dart smaller and thus
> > lighter; carrying GPS is also practical now in a way it was not in the late
> > '90's.
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Second: Is it not possible to use COTS grain segments of this same
> > > >>> diameter and get similar results?
> > > >>
> > > >> In principle, yes, one could use a commercial motor. I'm not certain
> > there exist one with the kind of sudden impulse that is required; also
> > remember that the launch tube was an important part of the Loki's
> > performance: it was a very highly optimized system.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bill
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Is there that much difference in the propellant used in the Loki?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Monroe
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> -------- Original Message --------
> > > >>>> Subject: [AR] Super Loki Dart design documents
> > > >>>> From: "Mark C Spiegl" <mark.spiegl@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>>> Date: Fri, August 29, 2014 1:48 pm
> > > >>>> To: <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I don't own the site. I was just surfing. The following two
> > documents
> > > >>>> describe the Super Loki Dart in decent detail. It's interesting
> > reading...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > http://www.rrs.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Super-Loki-Dart-Meteorological
> > > >>>> -Rocket-System-1968.pdf
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > http://www.rrs.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Design-Development-and-Flight-
> > > >>>> Test-of-the-Super-Loki-Stable-Booster-Rocket-System-1973.pdf
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -->MCS
> > > >
> >
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