Well Carl,
I do believe that you're being a bit disingenuous, whatever that means. You are
still chopping wood and you learned mobility skills when you were young and
healthy so you're not going to get lost in your house. If rehabilitation is
available, it works with young, healthy people. But expecting older people to
learn how to function efficiently as blind people is probably misguided, to say
the least. Thank goodness I learned braille in my early 20's, and sort of
learned the computer when I was in my fifties. So now I've just had to learn to
depend solely on Jaws without the backup of Magic, the screen enlargement
program. Those are the two blindness skills that I learned while young enough
to benefit from rehab.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 2:27 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Another cultural misunderstanding
We agree, Miriam.
There does come a time when there is no longer any training that will be
helpful. I can see that day coming toward me, too. But I recall the days when
I believed I could figure a way to reach anyone, and provide them positive
services. Today I see part of my job as being honest with clients and families.
I remember the woman who called, saying her mother needed our services. When
we arrived, the elderly woman was sleeping in a hospital bed in the living
room. Her daughter woke her up and we asked her what she was interested in
doing. She did not answer.
She'd fallen back to sleep.
We answer many similar calls from family members who want their loved one to
have some purpose in life. But none of us like the idea that we can reach a
place where our minds and our bodies are simply too worn out to really care.
When I was a few years younger, I honestly thought that as I aged and my senses
dimmed, I would just continue doing what I could do, only slower. Now I see
days, like today, where I have very little energy, and no real care if I do
anything at all...not even listening to Chris Hedges.
If we really cared for People First, we do have the knowledge and the tools to
make people's last years more pleasant and even more satisfying. But we put
price tags on everything. And value. Old people don't have much in the way of
value. And they're expensive to care for. As our planet overcrowds, and life
becomes more difficult for the younger generations, who will concern themselves
with the worthless elders?
I'd like to work up some interest in solving this problem, but I need to call
my clients...and take a short nap.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/22/19, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl, Th`ere's a lot to respond to in your post. I guess it's too
difficult
to do all of it. But yes, Evergreen Travel Service was one of the tour
services for the blind that I used. There were two others in addition.
Yes, Evergreen was condescending and expensive and unfair , or rather,
inequal in its treatment of its blind customers. Having said all that,
they were the first travel service to attempt trips for the physically
disabled, and then for the blind, and although I didn't do all of
their trips, they were adventurous. They took a group to China before
most sighted groups went there. They took a group to Thailand long before the
trip on which I went.
But I went to New Zealand and Australia with them, to Singapore
Thailand and , to Greece, to Spain, and to England and Scotland. The
other travel people were younger and perhaps, a bit more sophisticated
in their views, so their feelings about blindness were better hidden.
But people's attitudes about blindness remain as they have always
been, regardless of the fantasies of blind people about how their
capabilities will overcome.
Now for what you wrote about how all those sighted people assumed that
the blind people with whom they came into contact, were incapable.
I've lived my life with sight, very imperfect sight which worsened
over the years and sight that normally sighted people didn't
necessarily recognize as sight, but sight, nevertheless. I could see
the food on my plate and objects in a room and whether or not there
were people in that room, and where those people were located. I had
very close relationships with many totally blind people who could
function very efficiently, could eat like everyone else, could travel
in places like New York City. And so, for years, I had difficulty
understanding why people like sighted volunteers acted as if blind
people were so helpless. But of course, if one is sighted, one can't
imagine how one can function at all without sight. Now, within the
past year, certainly the past six months, I've lost my useable vision.
I can see light. I can't use my vision for anything. I can't see
what's on my plate or what color my clothes are or whether or not
there's someone in the room. And the loss is traumatic. Of course, at
the same time, I'm losing the ability to move around. I can't even
stand without holding onto something. I use a walker. My hearing has
deteriorated. So that does, perhaps, increase the trauma of the loss
of sight. I need my food cut up for me. And I won't eat in a
restaurant or even with other people. I get lost moving around my tiny
bedroom. And in 2019, there's no one who is going to send out a rehab
teacher week after week to an almost 82 year old multiply disabled
blind woman. There's no one even to come and do what I need for me and
my computer. There are agencies for the blind and they do what they get
federal and state matching funds to do. But they don't do what Fred and his
teachers did, 60 years ago.
When Art lived with me, he attended first, a so-called rehab program
for the elderly at Hellen Keller, (those instructors didn't
rehabilitate anyone, just gave people stuff like talking clocks), and
then a recreation program for the elderly. Most of those people,
including him, had been fully sighted for all of their lives, and they
became legally blind in old age. They accepted society's definition of
what a blind person was, and they had no problem with the volunteers'
patronizing atttitudes toward them. I went with him to a concert, an
expedition arranged by Helen Keller for interested recreation program
attendees. For me, it was a nightmare. Even given my present decrepid
condition, dealing with these attitudes is still a nightmare. But I
understand now, how all those sighted people are feeling when confrted with
someone like me. They don't know how to cope, what to do.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 10:37 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Another cultural misunderstanding
Good Earth Day, Miriam.
Somewhere I had the idea that you'd booked tours with Evergreen Tours
for the blind. They were headquartered here in the Puget Sound
area...maybe Everett? and initially they had a pretty good
reputation. But several folks I know, told me that they would never
sign up for another trip, because of the condescending treatment.
The Lion's club in Everett put on an annual Fishing Derby for the Blind.
When I heard that each blind person had their own "care taker"
who guided them so they would not fall overboard, seated them on the
deck, baited their hook and even took over reeling in the fish, I
never wanted to be treated in such a manner. Now I know that for some
blind people who have been very sheltered, that this might be the only
way they would ever come close to actually fishing, but these
do-gooders treated all the blind the same way.
This was also the habit of the Rainier Lions. Each year between
Thanksgiving and Christmas they held a "Holiday Dinner for the Blind".
A friend of mine talked me into going to one of these dinners, "just
to see what they did". He owned his own business, and he and his wife
also owned a string of rental houses in the Valley. They could afford
to buy the best dinner in Seattle, but every year they took advantage of the
"freebees".
I went...once...and was grabbed at the door by a kindly elderly Lion,
shoved into a folding chair, and told that after the prayer we would
have our plates brought out to us. And so it was. The food was all
cut up in neat little bite sized pieces. I had only a spoon. When I
was told that dessert would be coming right along, I asked if they cut it up
in the kitchen, too.
The kindly man thought I was serious, and he went and asked.
Not to be outdone, the Seattle Lions held a monthly "Round Up". They
picked up the blind folks and took them to the Community Services for
the Blind Center on Queen Anne Hill, where dinner was served and
volunteer entertainment was performed. CSB had the same custodial
attitude, and I never had the desire to get rounded up.
Many of the older blind folks believed that these dinners and derby's
were small compesation for their blindness. And they passed this
attitude along to newly blind members in the Organization.
I recall taking a group of students from the training center on a
field trip to the Underground Tour. Tickets cost $4 per person, but
only $2 for Seniors and disabled. Some of the students felt that this
was only fair, because after all, they were blind and couldn't see
what was around them. I said that we each took the same space whether
we were blind or sighted, and we should insist on paying the full fare
if we ever wanted to be treated equal. I led the group to the ticket
window and fought with the woman, finally getting her to tajke my $4.
I think she charged the rest of the group $2, because she never said a
word to alny of them.
Interestingly, those tours were fabulous, as long as you had a
creative tour guide. The fun was in the description, because blind or
sighted the underground tunnels were so dimly lit that there was little to
actually see.
But right off, our snappy young guide said, "Don't straggle, the rats
are as big as hogs...and hungry".
Over the years I think there has been some improvement regarding
attitudes toward the abilities of us blind folk. But I often wonder
if the attitudes have actually changed, or if the sighted public has
just become better at hiding them. I think of this when I see the
reemergence of the hatred and fear toward Blacks. All of our advances
in Race relations over the years have been derailed by one contemptible
president and his band of bigots.
I was going to ramble along on the subject of growing up as a Working
Class boy in an upper middle class neighborhood, but I'll save it for
another day.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/21/19, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl,
When I read your story about that long ago date, it reminded me of a
rather unpleasant experience that I had. I read your message and
thought, "class differences", and then I remembered this trip to
France that I took. There was a woman, a travel agent, who had
arranged a few trips for blind people.
I'd been on several of her trips. She was very wealthy. I think that
her husband had died by the time that I knew her. The trips that she
arranged for blind travelers were relatively inexpensive, but she was
accustomed to a very different kind of life. Her clothes were simple,
but very expensive.
She was kind and down-to-earth. I wanted to see France. She agreed to
accompany me as a sighted guide if I paid her passage, and she chose
a very nice tour. Now she had accompanied Art and me on a very nice
English tour, but apparently, the people who went on that company's
tours, (it was called Tauck), although they had money, they tended to
be very different from the people who patronized the company that did
the French tour. These people were, however, the kind of people with
whom Lois, my guide, was very comfortable. So the tour was lovely.
The food was amazing. Lois had a lot in common with the other people
on the tour. But although they were polite to me, they were distant.
They didn't usually eat with us. I felt very much like this weird
person, an outcast, someone who was socially unacceptable, a child to
whom people would be kind and over whom they would watch. Now I was
on other sighted tours, the English one, one Tauck tour to Italy with
my friends, and one Tauck tour to China with a different sighted
person acting as a guide, and I never felt that way on those other
tours. And believe me, especially on that China tour, all those
people had lots more money than I.
I would have liked to return to France, under different circumstances.
Of course, I can tell stories about the tours for blind people and
how uncomfortable I felt about the way in which the sighted guides on
those tours treated us and about the attitudes of the people who
arranged the tours. I am, perhaps, over sensitive. But I was, after
all, a paying customer. A long time ago, I had a job as a dishwasher,
in a summer camp for blind adults. I may have talked on this list
about some of my experiences at that camp, or possibly, it was a
different list. Anyway, the camp director had very good relationships
with the wealthy people who owned beach houses near the camp. I was
in a boat with a group of campers, driven by the assistant director,
past some of those summer beach houses one day. Mary turned off the
motor so she could wave to the people on the beach and chat with
them. And I remember one of the women saying to her, out loud, so all
of us could hear. "Mary it's just so wonderful how you take care of
them". I was about seventeen at the time. When we left the area, I
said something to Mary about that, something to the effect that it
was thoughtless of that woman to talk to her as if we weren't there
and couldn't hear, and as if everyone of us was helpless. And she
answered, "Just be grateful that they're kind and contribute money to
the camp. If we were in Nazi Germany, you'd all have been gased".
Miriam,
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 4:29 PM
To: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Cc: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Another cultural misunderstanding
Roger,
In my defense, I was only 22 at the time, and easily intimidated by
pretty girls. There are many things I would do differently if I only
knew then what I know now.
Funny thing, this life. We live a long time and end up knowing all
the things we should have known at the front end of life. But by the
time we get it all figured out...we are usually far too feeble to put
it to any good use.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/21/19, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
I think I would have told her that I was booked solid for the next
twenty-five years before she got a chance to tell me.
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed
without evidence. ”
― Christopher Hitchens,
On 4/21/2019 11:21 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Interesting. It would appear that all of a culture's practices
had a practical origin. We accept them because it's expected of us.
Like shaking hands. The practice of showing no weapons was done by
grasping the other person's dominant hand with your dominant hand,
normally the right hand. Today we nod when we are introduced to
someone of a higher station or position. That nod came from a full
bow from the waist. The full bow came from a custom of dropping to
the knees and prostrating before the superior person, usually
stretching the arms out in front and touching the forehead to the
ground, with the rear end high in the air. This show of
"respect"/submission, came from an ancient time when the superior
man mounted the backside of his "inferior". Think of that the next
time you give a nod of respect or drop your eyes when meeting a
person of higher status.
Back in the late 50's I dated a very attractive young woman of
obvious superior status. I know this because she eventually told
me so...as she bid me farewell.
We agreed to meet after work in downtown Seattle, and we began to
walk to a local restaurant. She stopped abruptly and said,
"Gentlemen walk on the outside". She was referring to the fact
that I was setting out on the side closest to the buildings,
leaving her to walk next to the traffic...although the curb lane
was full of parked cars.
I exchanged sides, but explained that she was more apt to be struck
by something falling from an open window, than by a parked car.
"Well,"
she then said, "It's still a matter of respect". I recall that our
dinner included a fat fried chicken thigh. As I began to reach for
my chicken thigh, to pick it up and chomp down, as we Jarvis' were
wont to do, she picked up her knife and fork and began cutting off
little tiny bites. And so, following suit, I proceeded to do the
same, butchering that poor defenseless piece of chicken all over
the table and my pants and the floor.
Being visually impaired, I had fully intended to take my date home
on the local bus. But after noting her "refined ways", I decided
I'd better spring for a cab. We walked up to her door and I put my
arm around her...another wonderful custom, and bent toward her
lips, anticipating that magical moment. She turned her cheek at
the last moment and placed the palms of her hands on my chest,
pushing me backward. This was another ancient custom that signaled
to all gentlemen that a second date was probably not in the cards.
But I sucked in a deep breath and lied, telling her that I'd had a
wonderful time, and would she care to do this again. She assured
me that she was booked solid for the next 25 years, and besides, I
gave new meaning to the old adage, Diamond in the Rough.
But I see that once again I've wandered off the subject.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/20/19, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thinking about this habit of Africans asking for gifts as a way to
show you honor, I just thought of another example that is similar.
That is, it is similar in that it involves making gifts. I think I
read this in an anthropology text book too. There was a certain
tribe of native Americans. I forget which one. To honor you and to
show good will it was their practice to make a gift to you that
they had no intention that you would keep. It was just to show
friendliness and good will. Then soon after giving you the gift
they would ask for it back. People from a white European culture
did not necessarily understand this. If you were to say, no, you
gave it to me and I'm keeping it, the giver would be highly
offended. The same white Europeans would also be confused if they
offered a gift and it was accepted and then the native American
who had received the gift turned around and gave it back. I
understand that this is where the phrase Indian giver came from.
But can you imagine the confusion that this example of culture shock
caused?
--
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed
without evidence. ”
― Christopher Hitchens,