Roger,
I'm sorry that I made that unfounded assumption about the book and about where
you were coming from. I do apologize.
I listened to Noam Chomsky on Democracy Now this morning. I don't know if
you've ever heard him talk or read any of his writing. He's celebrating his
90th birthday and to me, he seems like one of the most intelligent,
knowledgeable people that I've ever come across. He was comparing what is
happening here in the US, as well as in several Latin American countries and
European countries, to what was happening in Italy and Germany in 1939. He
quoted someone, perhaps Mark Twain, can't remember, to the effect that history
doesn't exactly repeat itself, but it rhymes.
I know that precise definitions are very important to you. I tend to be more
like Carl in this respect. I just know how all of this feels to me. Maybe
Fascism isn't the correct word from your prospective, but we're not in an
academic seminar. We're just bullshitting here on an email list. If we get
something wrong, it doesn't matter a whole lot. But it does matter if we insult
each other, even inadvertently.
Back in 1971, I was a member of a women's consciousness raising group. We
talked about a lot of very sensitive things and when the group started, we were
strangers. So there were some rules that had been laid out for new groups by
the people at the State College who initiated the consciousness raising
groups. The idea was to not be judgemental or accusatory toward each other.
Everyone should be able to state her experiences and feelings without people
stating their opinions about what was said. That meant that we didn't say, "I
think you're wrong." Or "I'd never act that way", or, "I'd never feel that
way". But one could say, "These are my experiences." "This is what I felt when
that happened to me". And we never tried to teach each other anything. We just
listened and shared. I think that on this list, we're just trying to listen and
share. We don't expect that we're going to change each other's minds about
life, especially not those of us who are more than 70 years old. We're not
attempting to show off about superior intellect or superior education. Most
list members don't want to post at all and some of us who do, don't want to
have debates. We just want a place where it's safe to share what's important to
us.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
(Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 3:19 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: BREAKING-Moreno Withdraws Asylum as Assange is
Arrested
Miriam, in a way you are like Mostafa. You make assumptions about me that
have no basis in anything. I cannot count the number of times that I have
expressed my personal opinion and you have dismissed it as Marxist theory as if
I don't have any opinions of my own. Now I find a book on bookshare that I have
not even read, but the synopsis seems to indicate that it might have an
explanation of what fascism is and you dismiss it as a book that will give a
Marxist definition of fascism. How can you be so sure of that when I, myself,
don't know that it has anything to do with Marxism? This attitude is like
Mostafa's in another way too. That is, you have your mind made up about what
fascism is and you just don't want to even be exposed to anything that might
show that it is something else. Okay, don't read that book. I have nnot read it
myself and I don't know that I will. But at least think about this. When there
is a word that describes an entire political ideology don't you think that
using it as a synonym for authoritarianism or just as an insult word for name
calling is just about bound to lead you to be using the word wrong? You said
yourself that calling Obama a communist was just crazy. Frankly, I strongly
suspect that the people who do call him a communist know that he is not even
close to a communist. It is just name calling, not political analysis, just
name calling. Well the word fascist is used for a lot of name calling too.
Unfortunagtely, I suspecgt that a lot of the people who use fascist as a name
calling insult word really don't know that the ones they are callingg fascist
are not even close to being fascists.
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
”
― Christopher Hitchens,
On 4/11/2019 5:34 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Thanks. I'm really not motivated to read a whole book giving me a Marxist
definition of Fascism. I'm having enough problems getting to read the books
that I'm truly motivated to read. But although we may not have a developed
workers' movement, we have a lot of frustrated folks whom I would define as
blue collar and lower middle class and a whole lot of angry people who are
white, however, you wish to define their class status. And they are following
Trump because he gives them explanations that appeal to them for why their
lives haven't turned out as they wish. He tells them that their jobs have
been stolen by foreigners, some in other countries and some who have
emigrated here. He tells them that life will feel better if their country as
the richest, most powerful in the world. He hands them scapegoats like the
media and criminals and enemies whom he identifies at rallies. And he has
rallies, constantly, to rile up his base. And he praises the Police. I'm sure
that a majority of police officers love him. Police officers and prison
guards and ICE officers. The electrician who came to repair things for me
ever since the mid nineties, who is a very kind man, has a huge Trump sign on
his truck. I'll bet that the guy who used to repair my appliances, voted for
him too. The woman who used to drive me to medical appointments, voted for
him, and probably the one who did my shopping and errands and whom I've known
since 1993 did too. They're all white Long Island blue collar people. These
folks are organized by watching Fox Cable TV. They may not be your idea of a
movement, but they are one anyway. I remember my shopping person saying to
me, "I don't agree with Trump about a lot of things, but he's right about the
immigrants". The statistic I heard yesterday is that 40% of the country
supports him and his policies.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey<rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 4:25 PM
To:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Miriam
Vieni<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: BREAKING-Moreno Withdraws Asylum as
Assange is Arrested
Trump does come a bit closer to being a fascist than Obama comes to being a
communist, but the dictionary definition you came up with is rather
simplistic. Fascism requires certain conditions to come about. It is a
working class movement that has been hijacked by a demagogue to justify
imperialism. The demagogue sets sections of the working class against another
section. If their is a tendency toward fascism in Trump it is his
anti-immigrant stance, but he has not misdirected a workers movement into
that kind of movement. For one thing, there simply is not a workers movement
that is available to scapegoat immigrants. If you want to see an incipient
fascist look at Patrick Buchannon. Whatever happened to him anyway? He also
did not have a mass workers movement to misdirect and so he was only an
incipient fascist. However, he did engage in some anti-capitalist sounding
rhetoric and blamed foreign sections of the working class, not capitalists,
for the economic woes of the American working class. There is a book that I
would like to recommend called What is Fascism and How to Fight it. I just
looked for it on Bookshare and it wasn't there. Right now I don't have time
to check around to try to find another source of an accessible copy, but it
does a pretty good job of explaining what fascism is and under what
conditions it develops. However, while checking Bookshare I did find
something else that looks promising. I should be wary of recommending books
that I have not read, but the synopsis indicates that it might have some
pretty good information It is called simply What is Fascism.
Here is a link to it:
https://www.bookshare.org/browse/book/2236389?returnPath=L3NlYXJjaD9tb
2R1bGVOYW1lPXB1YmxpYyZrZXl3b3JkPSZxdW90O3doYXQgaXMgZmFzY2lzbSZxdW90Ow%
3D%3D
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence. ”
― Christopher Hitchens,
On 4/11/2019 3:55 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Calling Obama a Communist is crazy because there's nothing about his
philosophy of government or his actions as president that resembles
Communism or Socialism or even the left wing of the Democratic Party. He's
clearly a centrist with progressive social values. Here's what I found in
the dictionary"
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime
(such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race
above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic
government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social
regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
dictatorial control
So why doesn't that fit Trump's vision and that of the current right wing of
the Republican Party?
Miriam
Other Words from fascism
-----Original Message-----
From:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 3:25 PM
To:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: BREAKING-Moreno Withdraws Asylum as
Assange is Arrested
There are those who have called Barack Obama a communist too. He is not and
never was. It is just as inaccurate to call Trump a fascist. Fascism is not
a synonym for authoritarianism.
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence. ”
― Christopher Hitchens,
On 4/11/2019 3:15 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Well, I think Trump and his loyal base are the real thing, regardless of
what the politically correct definition is. He and they reject all accepted
international norms regarding democratic law and human rights and, in case
you haven't noticed, there is a right wing takeover of the legal system
which will last for generations, and a dissolution of most of the existing
safeguards to civil liberties, financial security, and environmental
protection. The only industry that we have left is the war industry. If
Fascism isn't the correct label, does it really matter?
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 2:56 PM
To:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Carl Jarvis<carjar82@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: BREAKING-Moreno Withdraws Asylum as
Assange is Arrested
It would be well to remember that fascism has a specific meaning and its
development requires certain historical conditions including a
radicalization of the working class. Fascist is not just a synonym for
authoritarian. I now forget who it was, but in the seventies just after
Nixon resigned there was a socialist leader who said that those who called
Richard Nixon a fascist would find it hard to be listened to when the real
thing came along.
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence. ”
― Christopher Hitchens,
On 4/11/2019 11:08 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Everything Americans believed we were defending against, when we
entered WWII, is now us. We sacrificed so many young lives, and we
devastated the homes and lands of so many people who were also
victims, in order to end Fascism. Only to find ourselves embracing
Fascism, not only in our own Land but encouraging it in nations
around the Globe.
And now the American Empire, through its cohort Briton, finally has
its clutches on Julian Assange. We will be witness to a trial that
will look exactly like the Mock Trials we once denounced. And when
the final verdict is handed down, and Julian Assange is placed in
solitary confinement, the New World Fascists will openly and boldly
and viciously eliminate any remaining vestige of Free Speech.
Then they will sing songs of victory...until their asthmatic,
cancer-ridden throats and lungs can no longer suck in another
breath of the polluted air they have created.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/11/19, Miriam Vieni<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
BREAKING—Moreno Withdraws Asylum as Assange is Arrested
April 11, 2019 • 13 Comments
The WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has been arrested after the
Ecuadorian president, Lenin Moreno, withdrew Assange’s asylum, in
a move that runs counter to international asylum law.
WikiLeaks tweeted that Ecuador allowed British police into the
London embassy to arrest Assange at around 10:30 am British time,
5:30 am in Washington.
This is the moment when Assange was dragged out by police. He was
heard to say, “The UK must resist this….the UK must resist.”
Assange was taken with an arrest warrant for skipping bail when he
entered the Ecuadorian embassy in June 2012, fearing extradition
to the United States, where there is a sealed indictment with his
name on it. Assange lawyer Jennifer Robinson tweeted that he has
been arrested for breach of bail conditions and also because of a request
for extradition from the U.S.
Assange was taken a police station and will later be brought to
Magistrate’s court, according to a tweet from Christine Assange,
Julian’s mother.
Former Ecuadorian President Rafael Correrá reacted by calling
Moreno the “greatest traitor in Ecuadorian and Latin American history.”
Full translation: “The greatest traitor in Ecuadorian and Latin
American history, Lenin Moreno, allowed the British police to
enter our embassy in London to arrest Assange. Moreno is a
corrupt, but what he has done is a crime that humanity will never forget.”
Moreno made a national television address to announce his decision.
While the expulsion of a refugee to a country that could harm him
for political reasons, known as refoulement, is against
international law, Moreno accused Assange of “repeated violations
to international conventions and daily-life protocols.”
Unity4J will hold an emergency vigil under the hashtag #FreeJulian
beginning at noon U.S. Eastern Standard Time that will be webcast
live on Consortium News.
NSA whistleblower Ed Snowden reacted on Twitter:
Journalist and filmmaker John Pilger tweeted:
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