I concede to Roger's competency. He certainly defeated me on
practicing knavery, subversion and casuistry. He has exceeded his
boundaries. Moreover, he went farther to deceivably convince his ill
ego, that when I refute his rather stupefied misconceptions, I
subjugate myself to his allegedly incontrovertible rebuttals. Roger,
the self-proclaimed scientist never told us that molecules make up
everything around us and they are very small. But those molecules are
made of atoms which are even smaller. And then, those atoms are made
up of protons, neutrons and electrons which are even smaller. And
protons are made up of even smaller particles called quarks. Quarks
are hypothetical truly fundamental particle in mesons and baryons.
There are supposed to be six flavors of quarks and their antiquarks
which come in pairs, each has an electric charge of +2/3 or -1/3.
Quarks have not been observed directly but theoretical predictions
based on their existence have been confirmed experimentally. The
critical question here is, could this incredible accuracy and
complexity be left to mere theories of accidentalness? Atheists are
generically evasive. How could this perfectly designed and
consistently integrated universe be inadvertent? Ah by the way, do you
folks recall foul-mouthed Joe? I miss his glorious presence. . Now,
back to mr Roger the trickster, why do you flee rational evidence?
Atheists in general are frightened off if you pose rational evidence
to them. Atheism is basically defined as there is no divine force and
life is merely material. Thence, they are immensely inundated in
philistinism. Everything they talk about has to be staggeringly
materialistic. The world for them is only naturalism. They despise any
hypothesised notion if it's based on spiritual interpretation. Science
is a counterfeit resort that they often seek refuge with to justify
their irreligious sentiment. Scientific propositions couldn't be used
to affirm or negate faith. It essentially depends on the mind of the
one who views scientific references. So for instance, someone could
use the knife to kill an innocent. The knife could also be used to cut
off beef. Both acts have been executed by the same device. One is
considered good or at least morally satisfactory. Presumably, the
other act is absolute evil. Roger likes to ridicule a miracle of
prophet Muhammad as he ascended to the heaven on the back of a
fast-flying steed. Roger doesn't believe in celestial realms. He is
imprisoned in terrestrial bounds. Thereof, it'll be a grave waste of
time if I attempt to somewhat persuade him because he doesn't believe
in the unseen. I'll be pleased to sign a victory check and hand it
over to mr Roger if this makes him feel better. I won't ever lower
myself to such level as to who is the winner and that nonsense. I am
firmly settled on a solid ground. Otherwise, I would have not entered
in a debate on a list full of Atheists. Roger is solaced in his
comfort zone here. That's why my perennial Skype invitations are
dismissed. If he comes to an arena that is located out of his comfort
zone, he'll be easily exposed. I freely chose to remain here because I
am interested to learn how Atheists think. Atheism seems to be
fundamentally hypothecated on philistinism. I'd like to concisely pose
couple of crucial questions to those who embrace Darwin's theory of
evolution. At its inception, we allegedly have evolved from monkies.
First question, if so, why are still monkies? Second, has science
provided any reliable evidence archaeologically that ultimately
unveils this averred monkey man? Currently, there are still monkies
living among us. Many of them are close to human look. Nevertheless,
they share none of our sensible characteristics. Some of them just
look like us. Atheists claim we've evolved from monkies. Be that as it
may, they couldn't provide any decisive evidence for that. They
believe in phylogeny because it seems to be a fairly proper
alternative to creation which they prejudiciously decline. They mostly
base their tenets on empirical explanation. And, if they find no
empiric proof to back them up, they turn to theories that are
essentially or somewhat ostensibly opposed to spiritual experience.
Big bang and evolution would be fairly two vivid instances. Neither
theory is backed by actual scientific evidence. Hitherto, Atheists
confidently embrace them. The conversation now becomes clearer than
ever before. Atheists have baseless dependance on science.
Philosophically, they are somehow airheaded. They are emptily in their
argumentation. I do not drain. I count on deep education and
autonomous rationalism. I've written enough to those Atheists. I do
not expect any positive outcome though. I opt to continue here because
I determinedly destine to crack Atheism down. Cognitively, it is
enormously incongruous. Wel,, that's what I have for today's thread.
On 12/11/18, R. E. Driscoll Sr <llocsirdsr@xxxxxxx> wrote:
All:
I think that Mostafa is practicing self deceit.
Richard
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 11, 2018, at 12:57 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
"rogerbailey81" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
No, Mostafa, it is you who are attempting to deceive your audience. When
you tell someone that a flying horse is real you are both insulting their
intelligence and trying to deceive them. Now, you ask who created the
molecule. Okay, I could go into the chemical reactions that brought about
the water molecule that forms into ice crystals, but you would ask who
created that too and we would be right back where we were. The answer as
to who created whatever engendered the molecule is that we do not know
that it was created by anyone or anything. You are again indulging in
circular reasoning by pointing to something that exists and claiming that
it is evidence of its own creator. That is assuming your conclusion to
reach your conclusion and it is a blatant logical fallacy. Not only that,
but after it has been pointed out to you over and over that it is a
logical fallacy and after it has been explained to you over and over why
it is a logical fallacy it becomes a blatant lie. Now, as for why I am
reluctant to talk about my death, I am not the least bit reluctant to talk
about my death. It is coming. Right now it is not immediately imminent to
the point that I will be wrapping up my affairs in the next few days, but
it still could happen today or tomorrow. I have certain illnesses that
will probably lead to my death. That is mainly diabetes, but diabetes
spawns other maladies and one of them will probably bring an end to me.
What happens to me next? My personality will return to the state it was in
a thousand years ago, nonexistence. That is because every thought I have,
every memory I possess, every desire I have, the whole of my personality
consists of electro-chemical reactions that occur in my brain. Upon my
death those electro-chemical reactions will cease and their components
will disperse. There are entire libraries of documented results from
neurological research that back this up. If you disagree with those entire
libraries of scientific results then it is your burden to do your own
research and find demonstrable facts that will refute those documented
results. Now, let me point out something to you. When I explain these
things to you over and over and you just keep repeating the same fallacies
over and over you are validating my position every time. If you want to
stop validating my position try refuting me rather than just repeating
your arguments that have been completely refuted. If you cannot do that
then it is time for you to admit that I am right and you are wrong.
_________________________________________________________________
J.K. Rowling
“ I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for
believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist! ”
― J.K. Rowling
On 12/11/2018 7:41 AM, Mostafa Almahdy wrote:
Roger, you are attempting to deceive your audience. Crystals often
form in nature when liquids cool and start to harden. Certain
molecules in the liquid gather together as they attempt to become
stable. They do this in a uniform and repeating pattern that forms the
crystal. So basically, this is a chemical evolution of some substance.
Nevertheless, who actually created the molecule? As we knew, it is
defined in Physics and Chemistry as the simplest structural unit of an
element or compound. Who made this tiny element? Could we possibly
assume that the tiniest element of any structural substance has just
came into being by chance? Why Atheists attempt so arduously to run
away from the concept of creation? Initially, we were talking about
well and excellently designed universe. Roger deceitfully attempted to
pervert the subject. Mate, you're awesome at sophistry. Roger admitted
though, that if something proved to be made, it must have a maker.
This is a proper confession. Roger, why are you reticent to talk about
your thoughts of death? What motivates you to be not so transparent
about this? Is it the mysterious destiny that awaits you? Well
assuredly, it's nothing but eternal perdition, full of considerable
weep, regret and intensely incessant agony. You're radically obstinate
disposal will be utterly broken therein. The phenomenon of Atheism
broadly emerged when Hebraism and Christendom dramatically failed to
provide to their ostensible embracers the desperately demanded
spiritual satisfaction. Thence, people in the west are spiritually
unsatisfied. They feel desolated. Some Atheists wish to find another
path. But, they don't have time or interest to search for an
alternative. Death is indeed a disappointing subject for Atheists.
They're just so afraid of it. Because they are predominantly terrified
and unsettled as opposed to believers who're incredibly attributed to
positive attitude, certitude and placid temperament, they unconciously
developed a mental state called protestation for publicity. They knew
they're intensely despised in their communities. Therefore, they just
cry outloud. They falsely chase a counterfeit persuasion that we are
suppressed because we oppose traditional religiousness. They
dishonestly misuse and abuse scientific facts to wrongfully justify
their Atheistic belief. Atheism is thinkingly so ridiculous. Thus far,
they fallaciously force science into their irreligious sentiment. We
shall see folks, who has longer breath as opposed to the one who will
shortly be vanished. The question now, is the universe excellently
designed? If yes, who made it so perfect? I wish someone attempts not
to be psychotic for just once.
On 12/10/18, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
If something is well structured and excellently designed then, indeed,
that is sufficient to prove that it has been made. However, that does
not give you license to claim that things that are not well structured
and excellently designed are well structured and excellently designed.
Again, if you have independent evidence for a maker then you have shown
that there is a maker. If you do not have that independent evidence you
are claiming that the object is well structured and excellently
designed
because it has a maker and it has a maker because it is well structured
and excellently designed. That is circular reasoning. There are many
objects that can be shown to have structure that came about by natural
forces and with no conscious planning. A crystal is an example. If
water
gets cold enough it will crystallize and become ice. That means that
its
molecules align themselves with each other in a regular pattern, but
there is not the slightest evidence that any consciousness planned it
that way and made those molecules align themselves. It happens because
of how water molecules exist in the form that causes them to be water
molecules. It remains that if you do not have independent evidence of a
maker or even independent evidence of some process that caused an
object
to exist then you just do not know why it exists. It is a mystery to be
investigated and if you investigate you just might find out why it
exists. If you just claim that you already know why it exists without
doing the investigation, though, you are only making up things and
insisting that your made up explanations are true. If you claim that
the
existence of the object proves your made up explanation and that the
made up explanation is what allows the object to exist you are engaging
in circular reasoning.
_________________________________________________________________
J.K. Rowling
“ I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for
believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist! ”
― J.K. Rowling
On 12/9/2018 9:36 PM, Mostafa Almahdy wrote:
Roger, you are extremely petulant. If something is well structured and
excellently designed, that is sufficient to recognise that it has
truly been made. Why? because our mind couldn't rationally assume
otherwise. I do not base my assertion on circular reasoning. circular
reasoning is a logical fallacy. It depends on constituting your
premiss with the very conclusion you destine to end with. That's not
the case with what I just outlined. I say, if something is distinctly
designed, we couldn't rationally assume it hasn't been made. How did
it come into being then? Did it come into being by chance? Forceably,
that's what Atheists like to propose. They certainly have no evidence
for that. Experience with things that are less complicated than the
universe in their design were proved to be made. So, how could we
rationally assume that the universe which is consistent and perfect in
its unparalleled design has just been circumstantially unfolded.
Anyone with sound intellect wouldn't believe this. Carl, your open
letter to God was basically a sarcastic rhetoric and so Miriam
proceeded to this sarcasm. I now will get back to Roger. Why are you
offended with my preaching? Because you despise faith. It's for none
of the reasons you mention, you just hate religion. Let us be
straightforward folks, you all hate religion for what it is. I
understand why, you live in the west and your either Jewish or
Christian background wasn't suffice to answer your spiritual
questions. So, you just decided to get rid of what seems to be hassle
for you. By doing so, you have disposed spiritual allegiance and
thence, ethical accountability has chronologically been extinguished.
That is the tendency of those who are faithless. They are
indispensably despondent. In addition to that, they are logically
baseless. They often use what I call, emptily argument or, flimsy
philosophical propositions to just prevaricate. They deliberately miss
the essence of the matter. That's what I think of Atheists in a not
shall. And as for Agnostics, they're not too different to be quite
fair. An Agnostic is basically someone who is noncommittal about the
existence of God. So, he really doesn't care whether God exists or
not, he just lives his utterly meaningless life. Consequently, death
is a truly tough subject for these people. Especially, if they are
seniors. I hope I successfully propelled a deadly striking missile at
Atheists of this broadly graveled mail distrubution list. I have long
breath with radical imbecility. Atheists aren't ready to confront the
stunning truth. They just like to be indoctrinated. They're morally
convoluted and rationally defeated. Everything else flows from this
point. If someone on this list has the genuine disposal and the
adequate ability to meet me on Skype for a lively recorded debate for
history to keep, please, keep me informed.
On 12/9/18, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Grow up, Mostafa. You claim to want to engage in a civil discussion
and
yet you just keep up the childish insults. Now, I have explained to
you
over and over that if something is made then it has a maker, but
there
is no reason to assume that everything is made. If we do not know of
the
maker independently of the existence of the object that you are
claiming
is made we do not know that it is made. To claim that it has a maker
just because it exists is circular reasoning. There is no way around
it.
Now, why do you think you are obligated to alienate everyone you can
communicate with on the Internet with this never ending preaching.
You
cause hostility against you everywhere you post a message. That is
because you will not engage in normal conversation. You just want to
push religion on everyone. You seem to be determined to make yourself
unlikable.
_________________________________________________________________
J.K. Rowling
“ I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for
believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist! ”
― J.K. Rowling
On 12/8/2018 9:03 PM, Mostafa Almahdy wrote:
Roger is miserably psychotic. Circular reasoning is a logical
fallacy
in which the reasoner begins with
what they are trying to end with. So for instance, you have to
invite
John to your party because it wouldn't be nice not to do so. You
must
have enough money to pay your bills each month because bills have to
be paid. I never used such argument though. When I said everything
has
been made has to have a maker, I based my proposition on essentially
two basic contentions, experimental and rational proffers.
Empirically, we never witnessed something that has made on its own.
Rationally, our sound intellect doesn't ratify that theory. Roger
isn't able to reach a heightened state of maturity because of his
mental retardation. Roger only approves philistinism. Thence, he
merely gives credit to what is empirically examined. As a
chronological consequence, his proposition is emptily litigious. He
is
incompetent to cope with genuine logical thinking. I'd like to ask
those Atheists then, is the universe intelligently designed? If the
answer is yes, then it's logically quite natural to think, who made
this? If the answer is no, then you have to prove to me that it is
not
intelligently designed. If humans invented sophisticated gadgets, we
knew they made them. We could meet with genius artificers, speak to
them and so on. That's the stupidly Atheistic presumption.
Nevertheless, if you just entered a room and saw the light turned
on,
you'll logically assume that someone was here. Arguably, if we saw
an
airplane and we didn't know who made it, does that negate the fact
that it must be necessarily invented by someone? For stereotypically
materialistic Atheists, yes it does. Their proposition is mistily
seeded on the assertion that says, empirical research is
unambiguously
sufficient. They do not admit to the logical authority of rational
evidence. That's fine, it might be a school of thought but it is not
the only one. People who embrace the rational theory assert that an
intelligent design logically necessitates the existence of an
incredible Designer and a Superintendent. This Being is
Providential,
Transcendent, Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent. Furthermore,
He
is the primal Controller of our provenience, emergence and the
Divine
Sustainer and the Maintainer of our biologically diverse habitat.
I'd
like to ask Roger, what if you deceased and unfortunately discovered
that was actually a God. What would be your expected reaction? I
knew
you might receive this question with some apprehension, even if you
strenuously attempt to conceal this absolutely stunning fact. Roger,
you luckily won't be able to screw our intellects. You are
enormously
terrified of this moment because of its inexplicably obscure nature.
You're rationally unbalanced. Well folks, that's the negative legacy
of Atheism. It doesn't help its embracer to consistently reach up to
a
reasonably logical conclusion about the three major questions of
existence. Where did we come from? Why are we here? Where shall we
be
post to death? Each and everyone asks these vitally critical
questions. Modern Atheism is enormously incompetent to strategically
grapple with these crucial queries. Thus far, faith is a fairly
suasive alternative. It at least gives us hope to cope. We live
while
having a purpose, not just like cattle. Well, I mirthfully await to
receive Roger's typical salacity while deliberately dismissing my
key
rebutting elements. If someone is really willing to have a further
discussion on this subject, I have Skype and we could conveniently
schedule an arrangement. Thank you for reading, Mustafa
On 12/7/18, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Okay, Mostafa, let's look at who really flees from logical
discussion.
I
am not about to let you off the hook on this. I showed explicitly
how
your claim that the existence of something shows that it had a
creator
is a case of circular reasoning because it assumes the conclusion
to
arrive at the conclusion. That is solid logic. What did you do? You
threw a tantrum and declared that I was going to endure incredible
suffering. For one thing, that was far from engaging in civil
discussion. For another thing, it was fleeing from logical
discussion.
When the logic showed you to be wrong you fled from the logical
discussion and threw a tantrum. Then later you showed up and said
that
you wanted to have a civil discussion about your theology. I
doubted
that you really did want a civil discussion because you sure did
abandon
civility the last time, but I supposed that it was possible that
you
had
changed your mind and so I tried to take up right where we left
off.
Instead of engaging in civil discussion or logical discussion you
ignored my point about circular reasoning and started making your
childish insults. That was both fleeing from logical discussion and
refusing to engage in civil discussion. Now, let me teach you
something
about civility. If you want to be civil here is what you do when
you
are
confronted by your own logical fallacies. If somehow I have made a
mistake you can show me how you did not commit the logical fallacy
that
I pointed out to you. It would then be my job to either show you
how
it
is you who is wrong or if I cannot do that, to concede the point
and
say
that I was wrong and you were right. If you cannot refute my
contention
that you committed a logical fallacy it just might be possible that
I
failed to consider something on the way to illustrating that and
you
might want to point that out to me and if you have a valid point I
would
have to concede to your validity. If you have no refutation to make
at
all, though, it is then your job to concede to my point and to
declare
that you have been wrong and I have been right all along. This is
how
to
be civil. However, so far you have chosen to be not civil. You make
no
attempt to refute me, for one thing. That alone validates my
position
over yours. And instead of trying to refute me you start the
insults.
This leads me to another conclusion. Whenever you call for civil
discussion you are being a hypocrite. Whenever you say that someone
else
flees from logical discussion you are being a hypocrite. Let's put
it
this way. You are making yourself look like a complete fool and no
matter how much I give you the opportunity to redeem yourself you
choose
to continue to make yourself look like a fool. I would suggest that
you
try for a little self respect. And, by the way, it is not very self
respectful to declare in front of people who live in the real world
and
have lived in it all their lives and who have some idea of how the
real
world works that you believe in flying horses.
_________________________________________________________________
J.K. Rowling
“ I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis
for
believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist! ”
― J.K. Rowling
On 12/7/2018 12:18 AM, Mostafa Almahdy wrote:
Hello. Last week, we briefly talked about the major factors of
Atheism
emergence in the west. Today, I brought you a sternly intriguing
aspect of the subject. Atheists constantly dissent with faith and
tradition. In order to be heard, they act rebelliously. For many
traditionalists, they are considered apostates. Thence, they
intemperately despise religious consignment. Nevertheless, are
they
settled on scientific basis? We proved their infrangible nescience
of
rational basics. Science to them is merely enveloped in big bang
and
evolution theories which they gravely misapprehend. So, what is
the
psychological state of an Atheist? At its inception, they
generically
manipulate and hector others. They like to influentially dominate
us.
They consider you to be so stupid and that's why you're religious.
So
for instance, they generically associate cosmos provenience to
the
big bang theory. It is the cosmic explosion that is hypothesised
to
have marked the origin of the universe. So, they base their
proposition on essentially conjectured conception. Well, is the
big
bang a decisively scientific fact? Or, it's just the best
explanation
theorised by modern scholars. The Atheists will most likely
respond,
that the universe is perceived as opposed to God. We couldn't
perceive
God with any of our five senses. Thereof, deception begins. He
flees
from any logical discussion. For him, God is invisible. He will
only
believe in Him if he could excuse me, examine Him at the science
laboratory. For believers, that's a total blasphemy to even
imagine
this happening. Well unfortunately, that's the only way to
convince
an
Atheist about the existence of God, simple as that. Therefore,
Atheists firmly stick to empirical evidence. Nevertheless, they
accepted the big bang theory to interpret how this universe came
into
being. Well obviously, none of us witnessed the universe's
commencement. Thence, we theorised the big bang. So, they tell us
it's
not so intelligent to base concepts on theories but now, we proved
they established their explanation of how the universe unfolded on
theoretical fundament. So now, atheistic fallacious
characteristics
have been revealed. They accepted what they relentlessly denied.
Now,
when they have got nothing else to explain the mysterious
beginning
of
the universe with, they submissively sought refuge with
theoretical
explanation. Nevertheless, if we tell them that the divine theory,
let
us just put it like this, the divine theory is the rationally
proper
explanation of this well designed, well organised and vastly
sustained
universe, they will obstinately decline. Now, would I be possibly
scolded if I call them absolute chiselers? They are
psychologically
manipulated with abhorrently megalomanic state. If we are to
somewhat
psychoanalyse their mental development, we'll find them robustly
attempting to prevent rational substantiation. It's tremendously
crucial to fathom this factor about them. Furthermore, they
attempt
to
coerce their debater to remain in what I terminologically define
as
barren philosophy. It's basically a useless argument which seeks
nothing but further argumentation. It therefore becomes a vicious
cycle. It's one trouble leads to another that aggravates the first.
I
therefore urge my respected spectators not to unwisely waste their
time and intellectual vitality debating them. I would only proceed
in
a conversation with some of them if they civilly concur to abide
by
rational discussion's terms and conditions. I pragmatically proved
to
you that Atheists are mostly eccentric people. Life is utterly
purposeless for them and moral standards are radically influenced
with
the theory of relativism. Atheistic perspective is essentially
based
on materialistic view. If you like to know how an Atheist thinks,
I
urge you then to read a book called the God delusion authored by
the
primarily substantial leader of modernday Atheists, English
ethologist, Richard Dawkins. Up until I concentratively read this
book, I didn't know something about atheistic psychological
tenets.
Now I knew they are radically grounded on philistinism.
Disclaimer,
this book is implausibly disgusting but it's definitely worth
reading
if you wish to discern atheistic psychology. Thank you for
reading,
Mustafa
________________________________________