[etni] Fwd: Incomprehensible hogwash
- From: ETNI list <etni.list@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: Etni <etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:59:36 +0300
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bari Nirenberg <bnirenberg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Incomprehensible hogwash
I disagree with you completely. Who said that linguistic and
communicative ability are the only things we're supposed to be
measuring? Learning the literature and culture of a foreign language
is also part of learning the language. It's also clearly stated in the
English curriculum. This, by the way, is nothing new -- we have been
teaching literature all along and it was always supposed to have been
a component in the students' grade.
Even your physics students do a Bagrut exam in Hebrew literature, by
the way -- it's mandatory. This is not a 5-point exam in English
literature -- it's 26% of a 5-point exam in English (and the exam
itself is only 13%, the other 13% being the school grade). The exam is
not comprised solely of literary analysis -- 20% of the points are for
basic understanding of the pieces and another 30% are for making a
connection between something new that the students read on the exam
and a piece that they have read in class. In addition, if a student
receives any points at all for content, then up to 20% of the total
number of points that the question is worth are awarded for language
(meaning that in theory, a student can receive more points for
language than for content).
I really don't see what your point is. You're upset that your students
have to prepare for an exam in English? Not me -- I'm thrilled and
I'm thrilled that they're finally being tested on what I teach them.
In all honesty, though, it doesn't matter if you like it or not --
it's part of the English language curriculum and always has been and
it's what we have to teach and what our students have to be tested on.
Bari
On Friday, July 6, 2012, rafitalk wrote:
>
> You have said it yourself!!
>
> "it's a literature exam in English"
>
> NOT an English exam!
>
> It does NOT measure linguistic Or communicative ability!!'
>
> Are we not missing the point here?
>
> I have had mixed results with my classes ranging from the high 90 s to the
> low 70s it's the low marks that disturb me not because they are low- the kid
> can do the exam again and again and again.
>
> It's the fact that those who have underachieved have really excellent English
> but are not the type to take literary analysis in their stride. They are
> excellent math or physics students - twiddling around with inference etc is
> not their scene.
> Speaking and writing excellent well phrased and even erudite English is....
>
> They wouldn't have chosen 5 points literature or five points Gemmarra
>
> Now they are being forced to do so.
> And They are being penalized !!
>
> That is the point.....
>
> This is NOT about your English capabilities, it's about towing the rubric
> answer to the finishing line ...
>
> What a shambles
>
> Rafi
>
> On Jul 6, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Bari Nirenberg <bnirenberg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> It's a literature exam in English. Simply being an English speaker has
> nothing to do with getting a good grade on this particular exam. If none of
> the students were getting good grades, I might agree with you, but the fact
> of the matter is that there were many excellent grades on the exam.
>
> I am neither an inspector nor a "Ministry lackey". Neither is Mitzi nor the
> teacher who posted that her students had done even better than she expected
> on the exam (I don't remember who that was). Is it so difficult for you to
> believe that not everyone agrees with you and that many of those who don't
> are rank and file teachers like you?
>
> Bari
>
> On Thursday, July 5, 2012, rafitalk wrote:
>>
>> When a native speaker who has spent the last four years at a high school in
>> Miami and was an honor English student receives a grade of 75 there has to
>> be something wrong
>> This exam or log is not meant to be an indicator of intellectual agility -
>> it's an English exam no more no less
>> That is our brief...
>> We should not become so enamored with our collective egos and remember that
>> HOTS is , and will never be , the panacea for an ailing education system.
>>
>> It is certainly not up to the inspectorate to bully and belittle dissenting
>> voices.
>>
>> We are not the foot soldiers in the battle for self promotion and
>> engrandisement.
>>
>> Can we hear what real people have to say and not the ministry lackeys?
>>
>> Yes we HAVE read the handbook and yes we HAVE taken the blasted course and
>> yes the kids are unable to prove their linguistic ability in a fair and
>> uncluttered manner.
>>
>> The exam and log are crap
>> Speak up do... You have nothing to lose but your integrity
>>
>>
>> Rafi
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