[etni] Re: Our lying cheating natures
- From: Ruthi <rsheffer@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:22:59 +0300
An excellent post from David. It is,unfortunately, the system ,which kills
our children's innate curiosity.Having just come back from a trip in
Cambodia and Vietnam ,we were met in many places by inquiring children who
asked many questions about us- where are you from, how old are you, do you
have children, tell us about your country. Clearly these questions were not
motivated by any need to pass an exam but by their inborn curiosity totally
unaffected by any educational system.
The job of our system should be to nurture and foster this curiosity by
somehow latching onto it and harnessing it,rather than by stifling it and
channeling it into meaningless rote learning to produce grades which really
signify little about their real knowledge of a subject. But how to do it?
Search me...
Ruthi
2009/7/14 David R. Herz <davidrherz@xxxxxxxxx>
> I can't help responding again. The post by Adi represents an incorrect,
> unfortunate and unfortunately all too common, view of human nature. We are
> not born into this world as liars, cheats and con artists. We only become
> those things as a result of the perverse incentives that place lying and
> deception above our natural inclinations. If that were human nature, we
> would not "grow out of it." If it were human nature - if it were our
> nature
> in other words - why would we be bothered by it?
>
>
> My children don't, as a rule, do those things. I don't find that most of
> the children I meet do those things either. If we relate to our children
> as
> honest and good, they will be that. If we don't lie and deceive them,
> maybe
> they will have no interest in doing so to us. If you have ever met up with
> home-schooled students or the students of a democratic school, you will
> find
> students that have no incentive to cheat. They learn for its own sake, and
> like it.
>
>
>
> What our school system does though is tell students that numbers that make
> up grades are important. How many parents whose kids come home with a good
> report card actually inquire "But what have you learned?" We join in the
> call for good grades without ever inquiring as to what we are encouraging.
> When we, and our system, tell them that the number is important, they will
> seek the means to maximize that number. When we, as educators, are doing
> our job, our students should be coming home inspired to learn. As it is,
> when the school year ends, they have done what was asked of them and think
> that they have "learned."
>
>
>
> Consider the child, or even the adult, with a special interest in some
> area,
> be it astronomy, guitar, tennis, or any other subject. No grade is
> required
> for him to seek greater knowledge or understanding. He does it with joy.
> In my own experience, I can recall the Monarch notes I read to get over in
> an English class. It was only years later I actually read those books with
> joy. My older sister, on the other hand, only reads when she has to. She
> never got the joy of it. My wife, an avid reader from a very young age,
> recalls that she was reading a book and when she decided to use it for a
> book report, she lost interest in it and never finished it.
>
>
>
> As to the research about lying, I don't know about it. My youngest likes
> to
> make up stories. They are fiction, but I don't chalk it up to a lying
> nature. It is easy enough to draw the line between his stories and the
> "truth."
>
>
>
> I think I have made my point. We kill our children's interest in learning
> for its own sake, then tell them to go out and get good grades, and act
> surprised when they do what is necessary to get them. We tell them to get
> the degree, but we don't spend a lot of time inspiring them to learn or
> dwelling on honor and honesty and concern for their fellow man. Maybe if
> we
> dwelled on those things instead, and gave up grades, or made them at most
> an
> incidental measure, we might actually achieve our higher goals.
>
>
>
> Perhaps what makes us exceptional is simply that we have resisted, or have
> been brought up to resist, the many perverting influences that drive our
> students to cheat and deceive, but if this was available to us, we should
> be
> able to find a way to bring it forward to our students.
>
>
>
> Yours Truly,
>
>
>
> David R. Herz
>
> Drh16@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> drherz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Have we forgotten our childhood???
>
> That's what kids do, they cheat and deceive their parents, teachers etc.
> and
>
>
> we remain hopeful that they don't exaggerate/get caught, or that they grow
>
> out of it at some point.
>
> They do it at university too...and it is a badge of honor according to them
>
> so we might as well accept it as such. I tell them, if you cheated and I
>
> didn't find out, good for you, but don't count on it - and if I catch
>
> you.... G-d forbid...
>
> There are plenty of researchers showing that the lying phase/tendency in
>
> childhood predicts an especially bright and creative child!
>
> Yet, it is our job to "catch" them...
>
> Good luck
>
> Adi
>
>
>
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