[jawsscripts] Re: hairy problem on a project, re differing coordinates yielded in terminal emulation installations

  • From: Doug Lee <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:16:38 -0500

I once, years ago, undertook to write an entire subsystem of script
code to let me use relative coordinates that remained proportional
to window size, thinking that text grew or shrunk as you resized
the window; only to find out that it usually doesn't do that after
all.

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 02:13:07PM -0000, Tim Burgess wrote:
Geoff,

I doubt there's many folks on this list that haven't fallen foul of
something like that themselves, so just put it down to experience.  Glad
it's sorted. 


Best wishes.

Tim Burgess
Raised Bar Ltd
Phone:  +44 (0)1827 719822

Don't forget to vote for improved access to music and music technology at

http://www.raisedbar.net/petition.htm
 
-----Original Message-----
From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoff Chapman
Sent: 03 December 2008 14:05
To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: hairy problem on a project, re differing
coordinates yielded in terminal emulation installations

ah, Mighty mighty scripters!

... well, here we all are on a sunny day in june, ... well, it might be
June, if we extend our imaginations just a squeebe.

but, ..., well ok, to get to my procrastinatory topic.

Firstly I wanna say a big huuuuuge thank you to Mike, Tim, James Andrew, and
others who sent me back very helpful suggestions for my hairy terminal
emulation window display coordinate anomaly problem.  plus, very usefully,
some further scripting ideas which if I can absorb and understand them with
a tad more study and experience, might help me to make my code more robust
across a wider range of screen environs.

well, the end of the story is,
You'll all be very pleased I'm sure,
to know, and share my joy to hear, that today, the probloem has been
resolved!
 well, To within one pixel of the other system, which I'm relatively sure my
scripts should cope with.
But, ok, here it comes, you'll never guess how stupid this one ended up
being! hours and hours of not only my own but more importantly other
people's, including yourselves, valuable  time trying to nut down and hunt
endlessly around for, you won't believe this, what turned out to be the most
simplest and most obvious of issues, that I feel quite ashamed and
embarrassed to have to admit I never thought of remembering to check!
you wanna know what it all was? one, count them, 1, single generic setting
in windows display settings in control pannel. under the appearance tab. a
lovely little setting called "windows and buttons." and instead of it being
set to classic, like it apparently was on the machine that I built the
functioning system on, it had been set to xp.
So! one up arrow and one enter press later? caboo'oo'oo'oo'oom!
all fixed!

isn't that just, ... well words fail me!  I'm sure they won't be failing you
though, so I'll just take a quick duck out of the way before the rotten
tomatoes start plopping into my hair.
<grin.>

Thanks as always for all the useful extra ideas I've now extracted from you
all kind people about constants, offsets, and absolutes.
hmmm, after that little effort, Maybe I should go back to music!

Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:20 PM
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: hairy problem on a project, re differing
coordinates yielded in terminal emulation installations


> Had a similar situation more than once. The font could definitely 
> throw your coordinates off. Have you checked options in the Client 
> Access configuration files like toolbar size, cursor type and 
> rule-line? If you don't already have it, you might find useful 
> information in IBM Client Access.pdf. There's a copy at:
>
> http://home.centurytel.net/Bigfork/IBMClientAccess.pdf
>
> Good luck,
>
> Mike
>
> Geoff Chapman wrote:
> > ah Mighty scripters.
> > ok, I've got a really hairy one that I'm very desirous of any 
> > assistance
with, that anyone might be able to give me. although it's not directly
scripting related, but it kinda is.
> >
> > The explanation is a tad lengthy, but I wanna try and be as thorough 
> > as
I can, and present you with as much information that I can into the problem,
so as to hopefully minimize people having to ask if I've checked this or
that etc.
> > so, ... if you could bear with me to read through it?
> >
> > Last year with the so kind and considerate help and fantastic 
> > knowledge
of people on this list,
> > and serious input from another guy who isn't on this list, I was 
> > able to complete scripting up a system for pizza hutt call centre
order takers, such that a blind person could work in their call center and
do the job of filling out all the necessary details
> > on the various screens to take orders, confirm addresses, store
opening/closing times where applicable, confirm pricing for products, read
back the pizzas to the customer in human language rather than code, type any
special instructions, etc.
> > now apparently Sighted Order takers have only "dumb terminals,"
connected to what I believe is called an A S 400 server? if I have the
terminology right.
> >
> > But in order to give jaws a chance at the thing, of course it needed 
> > to
be opperable in a windows environment.
> >
> > So, pizza hutt installed on a windows box, what seems to be being 
> > referred to as a 5250 terminal emulation software
called IBM client access express, version 5.0, as indicated in the about
box, and was thus able to connect to the as400 server using this setup,
causing the main ordering terminal window to occur in this environment.
> >
> >
> > So last year, I was able to complete this system on that Pc and the
Blind ordertaker has been happily employed and using it for a year.
> > That pc was a generically built one from a shop I trust that I've 
> > been
using for many years, with reputable components etc.
> > But it wasn't a branded one.
> >
> > Now they wish me to make efficiently accessible, what they call the
advanced CSR functions, and they've given me a newish
> > pc, this time a branded hp one, (hardware specs detailed at the 
> > end,) again loaded with the same version of the IBM client access 
> > express
terminal emulation software, that was put on the original pc.
> >
> > ok now here's the problem.
> > on the NEW development PC, there's a few serious display rendering
anomalies, that are simply causing the system I previously built, not to
function at all on this new PC. and I obviously simply must find out why,
and how I might fix it, before I can begin to start coding up anything else.
> > Because, wisely or unwisely, pretty much everything I've done in the
scripting code of the system I built,
> > in being able to glance at, and handle the autoLoading of new 
> > frameSets
into memory to cope with speaking right frame/field  labels for differing
screens, has all been done pretty carefully using absolute pixel coordinate
functions. like GetTextInRect()
> > etc, Which I found to be the most reliable method for both 
> > triggering
and often also glancing at/gathering data for display in virtulal viewer
upon double Click of the keystroke, for easier review etc.
> > I.e. this GetTextInRect function isn't robust in the sense that it
didn't use either application window, or current window relative boarders,
but absolute ones. Even though some of the functionality I used, did use
frames, which presumably would've at least been application window boarder
relative.
> >
> > There are a couple of issues, and I'll take the major one first.
> > But they're all display coordinate related.
> >
> > 1. the X/Y coordinate of the top left hand corner, of the actual
terminal window itself, is sitting approximately 28 pixels lower in absolute
terms relative to the top of the screen on my new pc, than it sits on the
prior one.
> > The x coordinate however, is identical on both pc's.
> >
> > This is my primary problem.
> >
> > 2. The TitleBar, Menu Bar and Graphic Toolbar of the actual IBM 
> > client
access express 5250 program,
> > which lie above this main terminal window, are also not sitting in
identical spots re their absolute Y coordinates, but, for example they're
only off by a margin of 3, 7 and 8 pixels, in case of the TitleBar, menuBar
and ToolBar respectively.
> > I.e. with the old PC that's working, the TitleBar is sitting at an
absolute Y coord of 13, whereas the old Pc, it's sitting at a Y coord of 10.
> > The menu bar sits at a y coord of 29, whereas the new pc they've 
> > given
me to use now, menu bar sits at a y coord of 36.
> > The ToolBar below this, starts on the old working pc, at y Coord 54,
whereas the new one it starts at an absolute y Coord of 62.
> >
> > But, as I say, the top left corner of the emulation window itself, 
> > on
the old working pc, starts at an absolute y coord of 82, whereas on the New
pc, it's found at an absolute Y Coord of 110.
> > So this to me means there's some anomaly between the bottom of the
toolBar, and the top of where the terminal window itself starts, which I've
gotta try and get to the bottom of, and eliminate.
> >
> > All the specs related to the toolBar I can think to check, via right
clicking on it and going into toolBar styles, are the same on both pc's.
> > Jaws reports The graphics as 18 by 16 on both PC's, when the "show 
> > text
on toolBar" option is unchecked.
> >
> > 3. on the old PC, jaws reports the font inside the main terminal 
> > screen
itself, as IBM 3270 19 point, whereas on the New Pc, it's reporting as IBM
3270 18 point.
> > This effectively means, that each line turns out to be 26 pixels in
height on the old working pc, and only 24 pixels in height, on the new one.
which of course means that as one progresses vertically down the screen,
> > the absolute coordinates are going to get further and further at
variance between the two systems, and things will thus break by degrees
depending on which part of the screen we are relying on things being at
identical absolute coordinates relative to the top lefthand corner.
> >
> > Of course both app windows have been checked for maximization.
> > every other view and toolBar styles related issue I can think of to
check, has been checked on both pc's, and appear identical.
> >
> > We've of course checked Screen Resolution and color bit Depth on 
> > both
PC's, and they report identical. Both have windows xp professional service
Pack 2 installed on them.
> >
> > the old pc is a generically built one as I say, but has a separate
NVidia Display adaptor  in it model Geforce 7300GS, (with either 128 or 256
meg ram, I can't quite remember which,)
> > 3.0ghz Single core CPU, 1 gig system Ram.
> >
> > The new Pc is
> > an hp3530, with only 512 meg system ram, and a 2.8GHZ CPU, using if
memory serves, an onboard intel extreme graphics adaptor, I think the 865G
chipset? don't quote me on that last spec though as I haven't written that
down?
> >
> > any clues anyone might throw at me to solve this one would be ever 
> > so
greatfully recieved.
> >
> > thanks.
> >
> > geoff c.
> >
> >
> >
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-- 
Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
it was done." --Helen Keller
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