[jawsscripts] Re: hairy problem on a project, re differing coordinates yielded in terminal emulation installations

  • From: "Geoff Chapman" <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 01:29:02 +1100

wo! really?
ug! that mustn't have been a fun discovery either doug! soooo refreshing to
hear of deva's like you falling into errors of perception like that. guess
when it all comes down, we're all stil blind eh.  one likes to seek to
forget that from time to time, but, sometimes it pops up and goes "ding,"
to remind eh.
you'd never believe the amusement my friends had when they asked me to start
describing what I thought a whale might look like, never having been exposed
to one. But, now we are straying from topic! <grin.>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Lee" <doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:16 AM
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: hairy problem on a project, re differing
coordinates yielded in terminal emulation installations


> I once, years ago, undertook to write an entire subsystem of script
> code to let me use relative coordinates that remained proportional
> to window size, thinking that text grew or shrunk as you resized
> the window; only to find out that it usually doesn't do that after
> all.
>
> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 02:13:07PM -0000, Tim Burgess wrote:
> Geoff,
>
> I doubt there's many folks on this list that haven't fallen foul of
> something like that themselves, so just put it down to experience.  Glad
> it's sorted.
>
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Tim Burgess
> Raised Bar Ltd
> Phone:  +44 (0)1827 719822
>
> Don't forget to vote for improved access to music and music technology at
>
> http://www.raisedbar.net/petition.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoff Chapman
> Sent: 03 December 2008 14:05
> To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: hairy problem on a project, re differing
> coordinates yielded in terminal emulation installations
>
> ah, Mighty mighty scripters!
>
> ... well, here we all are on a sunny day in june, ... well, it might be
> June, if we extend our imaginations just a squeebe.
>
> but, ..., well ok, to get to my procrastinatory topic.
>
> Firstly I wanna say a big huuuuuge thank you to Mike, Tim, James Andrew,
and
> others who sent me back very helpful suggestions for my hairy terminal
> emulation window display coordinate anomaly problem.  plus, very usefully,
> some further scripting ideas which if I can absorb and understand them
with
> a tad more study and experience, might help me to make my code more robust
> across a wider range of screen environs.
>
> well, the end of the story is,
> You'll all be very pleased I'm sure,
> to know, and share my joy to hear, that today, the probloem has been
> resolved!
>  well, To within one pixel of the other system, which I'm relatively sure
my
> scripts should cope with.
> But, ok, here it comes, you'll never guess how stupid this one ended up
> being! hours and hours of not only my own but more importantly other
> people's, including yourselves, valuable  time trying to nut down and hunt
> endlessly around for, you won't believe this, what turned out to be the
most
> simplest and most obvious of issues, that I feel quite ashamed and
> embarrassed to have to admit I never thought of remembering to check!
> you wanna know what it all was? one, count them, 1, single generic setting
> in windows display settings in control pannel. under the appearance tab. a
> lovely little setting called "windows and buttons." and instead of it
being
> set to classic, like it apparently was on the machine that I built the
> functioning system on, it had been set to xp.
> So! one up arrow and one enter press later? caboo'oo'oo'oo'oom!
> all fixed!
>
> isn't that just, ... well words fail me!  I'm sure they won't be failing
you
> though, so I'll just take a quick duck out of the way before the rotten
> tomatoes start plopping into my hair.
> <grin.>
>
> Thanks as always for all the useful extra ideas I've now extracted from
you
> all kind people about constants, offsets, and absolutes.
> hmmm, after that little effort, Maybe I should go back to music!
>
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:20 PM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: hairy problem on a project, re differing
> coordinates yielded in terminal emulation installations
>
>
> > Had a similar situation more than once. The font could definitely
> > throw your coordinates off. Have you checked options in the Client
> > Access configuration files like toolbar size, cursor type and
> > rule-line? If you don't already have it, you might find useful
> > information in IBM Client Access.pdf. There's a copy at:
> >
> > http://home.centurytel.net/Bigfork/IBMClientAccess.pdf
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Geoff Chapman wrote:
> > > ah Mighty scripters.
> > > ok, I've got a really hairy one that I'm very desirous of any
> > > assistance
> with, that anyone might be able to give me. although it's not directly
> scripting related, but it kinda is.
> > >
> > > The explanation is a tad lengthy, but I wanna try and be as thorough
> > > as
> I can, and present you with as much information that I can into the
problem,
> so as to hopefully minimize people having to ask if I've checked this or
> that etc.
> > > so, ... if you could bear with me to read through it?
> > >
> > > Last year with the so kind and considerate help and fantastic
> > > knowledge
> of people on this list,
> > > and serious input from another guy who isn't on this list, I was
> > > able to complete scripting up a system for pizza hutt call centre
> order takers, such that a blind person could work in their call center and
> do the job of filling out all the necessary details
> > > on the various screens to take orders, confirm addresses, store
> opening/closing times where applicable, confirm pricing for products, read
> back the pizzas to the customer in human language rather than code, type
any
> special instructions, etc.
> > > now apparently Sighted Order takers have only "dumb terminals,"
> connected to what I believe is called an A S 400 server? if I have the
> terminology right.
> > >
> > > But in order to give jaws a chance at the thing, of course it needed
> > > to
> be opperable in a windows environment.
> > >
> > > So, pizza hutt installed on a windows box, what seems to be being
> > > referred to as a 5250 terminal emulation software
> called IBM client access express, version 5.0, as indicated in the about
> box, and was thus able to connect to the as400 server using this setup,
> causing the main ordering terminal window to occur in this environment.
> > >
> > >
> > > So last year, I was able to complete this system on that Pc and the
> Blind ordertaker has been happily employed and using it for a year.
> > > That pc was a generically built one from a shop I trust that I've
> > > been
> using for many years, with reputable components etc.
> > > But it wasn't a branded one.
> > >
> > > Now they wish me to make efficiently accessible, what they call the
> advanced CSR functions, and they've given me a newish
> > > pc, this time a branded hp one, (hardware specs detailed at the
> > > end,) again loaded with the same version of the IBM client access
> > > express
> terminal emulation software, that was put on the original pc.
> > >
> > > ok now here's the problem.
> > > on the NEW development PC, there's a few serious display rendering
> anomalies, that are simply causing the system I previously built, not to
> function at all on this new PC. and I obviously simply must find out why,
> and how I might fix it, before I can begin to start coding up anything
else.
> > > Because, wisely or unwisely, pretty much everything I've done in the
> scripting code of the system I built,
> > > in being able to glance at, and handle the autoLoading of new
> > > frameSets
> into memory to cope with speaking right frame/field  labels for differing
> screens, has all been done pretty carefully using absolute pixel
coordinate
> functions. like GetTextInRect()
> > > etc, Which I found to be the most reliable method for both
> > > triggering
> and often also glancing at/gathering data for display in virtulal viewer
> upon double Click of the keystroke, for easier review etc.
> > > I.e. this GetTextInRect function isn't robust in the sense that it
> didn't use either application window, or current window relative boarders,
> but absolute ones. Even though some of the functionality I used, did use
> frames, which presumably would've at least been application window boarder
> relative.
> > >
> > > There are a couple of issues, and I'll take the major one first.
> > > But they're all display coordinate related.
> > >
> > > 1. the X/Y coordinate of the top left hand corner, of the actual
> terminal window itself, is sitting approximately 28 pixels lower in
absolute
> terms relative to the top of the screen on my new pc, than it sits on the
> prior one.
> > > The x coordinate however, is identical on both pc's.
> > >
> > > This is my primary problem.
> > >
> > > 2. The TitleBar, Menu Bar and Graphic Toolbar of the actual IBM
> > > client
> access express 5250 program,
> > > which lie above this main terminal window, are also not sitting in
> identical spots re their absolute Y coordinates, but, for example they're
> only off by a margin of 3, 7 and 8 pixels, in case of the TitleBar,
menuBar
> and ToolBar respectively.
> > > I.e. with the old PC that's working, the TitleBar is sitting at an
> absolute Y coord of 13, whereas the old Pc, it's sitting at a Y coord of
10.
> > > The menu bar sits at a y coord of 29, whereas the new pc they've
> > > given
> me to use now, menu bar sits at a y coord of 36.
> > > The ToolBar below this, starts on the old working pc, at y Coord 54,
> whereas the new one it starts at an absolute y Coord of 62.
> > >
> > > But, as I say, the top left corner of the emulation window itself,
> > > on
> the old working pc, starts at an absolute y coord of 82, whereas on the
New
> pc, it's found at an absolute Y Coord of 110.
> > > So this to me means there's some anomaly between the bottom of the
> toolBar, and the top of where the terminal window itself starts, which
I've
> gotta try and get to the bottom of, and eliminate.
> > >
> > > All the specs related to the toolBar I can think to check, via right
> clicking on it and going into toolBar styles, are the same on both pc's.
> > > Jaws reports The graphics as 18 by 16 on both PC's, when the "show
> > > text
> on toolBar" option is unchecked.
> > >
> > > 3. on the old PC, jaws reports the font inside the main terminal
> > > screen
> itself, as IBM 3270 19 point, whereas on the New Pc, it's reporting as IBM
> 3270 18 point.
> > > This effectively means, that each line turns out to be 26 pixels in
> height on the old working pc, and only 24 pixels in height, on the new
one.
> which of course means that as one progresses vertically down the screen,
> > > the absolute coordinates are going to get further and further at
> variance between the two systems, and things will thus break by degrees
> depending on which part of the screen we are relying on things being at
> identical absolute coordinates relative to the top lefthand corner.
> > >
> > > Of course both app windows have been checked for maximization.
> > > every other view and toolBar styles related issue I can think of to
> check, has been checked on both pc's, and appear identical.
> > >
> > > We've of course checked Screen Resolution and color bit Depth on
> > > both
> PC's, and they report identical. Both have windows xp professional service
> Pack 2 installed on them.
> > >
> > > the old pc is a generically built one as I say, but has a separate
> NVidia Display adaptor  in it model Geforce 7300GS, (with either 128 or
256
> meg ram, I can't quite remember which,)
> > > 3.0ghz Single core CPU, 1 gig system Ram.
> > >
> > > The new Pc is
> > > an hp3530, with only 512 meg system ram, and a 2.8GHZ CPU, using if
> memory serves, an onboard intel extreme graphics adaptor, I think the 865G
> chipset? don't quote me on that last spec though as I haven't written that
> down?
> > >
> > > any clues anyone might throw at me to solve this one would be ever
> > > so
> greatfully recieved.
> > >
> > > thanks.
> > >
> > > geoff c.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________
> > > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
> http://jawsscripts.com
> > >
> > > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.11/1820 - Release Date:
> 11/29/2008 6:52 PM
> > >
> > >
> >
> > __________
> > Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository
> > http://jawsscripts.com
> >
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
> >
>
> __________
> Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com
>
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
>
> __________?
> Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com
>
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
> -- 
> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer
> SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand
> mailto:doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done,
> it was done." --Helen Keller
> __________
> Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com
>
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts
>
>

__________ 
Visit and contribute to The JAWS Script Repository http://jawsscripts.com

View the list's information and change your settings at 
http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts

Other related posts:

  1. Home
  2. jawsscripts
  3. Archive
  4. 12-2008