[opendtv] Re: Doug is Missing the Point
- From: "Dale Kelly" <dalekelly@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 13:43:01 -0800
Bert wrote:
>while several people on this list have declared that Antennaweb to be
>overly optimistic, I can receive all local channels indoors (and one
>Baltimore channel too), where Antennaweb claims I cannot receive any.
My difficulty previously reported with Antennaweb is that it can't resolve
terrain variations with the accuracy required to determine when a location
is blocked by moderate height obstructions (hundreds of feet). I do agree
with your general assumptions though, RF propagation is often illogical and
it is can be difficult to accurately define when a signal will or will not
be picked up.
As an example; I grew up in a small Sierra Nevada mountain village where, in
the early 1950's, the new television stations about 35 miles away could not
be received, much to every ones disgust. My father, a great fan of boxing
who simply had to have the Friday night fights, decided to give it one more
try by placing an antenna atop a tall oak in our yard. After several hours
of frustration, he called it quits, climbed down and dropped the antenna at
the base of the tree. Upon going into the house to turn of the TV, he saw a
useable picture and there the antenna stayed for many years. Needless to
say, our house was often full of my Dad's logging buddies each Friday night
thereafter.
-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Albert Manfredi
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:13 AM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: Doug is Missing the Point
Stephen Long wrote:
>Doug, you are missing the point. With 8VSB you have to POINT
>the ANTENNA, indoors or outdoors to get reliable reception.
> With 8VSB we are back to the early 1960's, where you had to
>mess with the rabbit ears every time you changed the channel.
>
>8VSB reception is so bad at my house I have the roof antenna
>pointed at one station (NBC), and I have to switch to an indoor
>rotating antenna for all other channels. I have to "tune" the
>reception with the signal meter on my Accuran box. If you
>watch the signal meter, you can watch the signal fade up and
>down continuously - dynamic echos are killing the signals. I live
>~20 miles line of sight to all of the big sticks in DC. It is NOT
>about signal strength, it is all about the echos.
I haven't figured out all the nuances oif digital reception yet, but I have
given several examples here where 8-VSB is far easier to receive than the
analog equivalent.
I have a relatively lower gain outdoor UHF yagi, which has no corner
reflector, that does an amazing job with most Baltimore stations (almost 50
miles away), as well as most local stations, while it is quite inadequate
for the analog channel of those stations. This antenna was only really
useful for local Channel 50 before, removing all the ghost, but it added
ghost to most other stations. Now this same antenna manages to work with
just about all local *and* distant channels except for 22 (Annpolis), 11
(Baltimore), and local Channel 30 which is completely in the wrong
direction. I was amazed by this. Why is this small antenna so good?
Also, while several people on this list have declared that Antennaweb to be
overly optimistic, I can receive all local channels indoors (and one
Baltimore channel too), where Antennaweb claims I cannot receive any. So if
Antennaweb is as overly optimistic as was claimed, 8-VSB must be not bad at
all. And indoor reception at 20 mile range is not exactly bad news, even if
you need to point the antenna.
I think we can all agree that with the Accurian, and Digital Stream cousins,
and the other receivers available on the market for OTA STBs and recording
devices, we are still playing with 3rd generation tedhnology, where echo
plays a far greater role than it should. But we also have known for years
that much better receiver technology exists. Good equalizers put all that
echo energy to good use.
By the way, if you do a web search for OTA antennas, you might be surprised
to see how few sources are left. Radio Shack was once a very good source.
It's now almost as useless as TV Guide became useless for local channel
listings. And you will find several new "multidirectional" antenna designs
which claim to be optimized for DTV. These are for the most part stacked
dipoles, it seems.
I believe these claims, based on my experience with the smaller UHF yagi I
have. What works best with digital might look unimpressive with analog. But
where are the 4th/5th gen receivers for OTA use?
Bert
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