[projectaon] Re: serial comma
- From: James Durrant <james.durrant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 09:45:17 +0100
welll.... I agree we can use any style we choose, and certainly should stick to
the style we have now, but to answer the below...
I was taught that in a list, "," and "and" effectively mean the same thing.
"and" takes the place of the comma to bring the list to the close - the list
can be read with a comma INSTEAD of the and, (or in fact with "and" instead of
all the commas!) but if you have it as well it is duplication.
The comma is an aid to speech/reading - it implies a slight pause. The word
"and" is also accompanied by a slight pause when spoken in most cases, so if
you have both in theory you have almost a full stop length of break!
Anyway - the bottom line is I don't think we should change it but if I were
starting from scratch I wouldn't use it.
P.S. I'm in England too :)
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 09:36:02 +0100> From: outspaced@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To:
> projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [projectaon] Re: serial comma> > Jonathan
> Blake wrote:> > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Lawrence Ritchie> >
> <callmeinstead@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:> >> I balk when I see your adoption of the
> serial comma. Talk about> >> unconventional! (In the British publishing world
> -- and Lone Wolf is British> >> -- virtually every publisher eschews its
> use).> > > > We've done much worse. :)> > Heh heh!> > Speaking as someone who
> was born and lives in England, I remember being taught > at school that you
> should never put a comma before 'and'--and even twenty years > down the line
> I clearly remember sitting in the classroom thinking it was a > stupid,
> inconsistent, nonsensical rule.> > If I list things on separate lines, I
> don't place the final two items on the > same line "just because".> > If I
> separate a list using semi-colons, I don't "forget" to put one between the >
> penultimate and final items.> > So why the missing comma before 'and'? It has
> never made any sense to me > whatsoever. Just because it has historically
> been omitted does not mean we need > to continue the archaic practise.
> Project Aon is, after all, an independent, > international publishing house
> based on voluntary contribution. And as such, we > have our own style
> manual--which includes the serial/Harvard/Oxford comma. We > are not a
> behemoth publishing house with 100 years of history. We don't need > huge
> meetings to decide whether we're going to move forward and adopt a more >
> modern grammatical rule. We were free to make such decisions very early on in
> > our existence without the pressures of a back catalogue of many thousands
> of > books, none of which utilised the serial comma. And as an
> 'international' > organisation, we are not subject to local (grammatical)
> laws that we don't like. > We haven't changed the spelling of British-English
> words to their ugly American > counterparts (the word 'plow' makes me
> shudder), we are merely updating some of > the punctuation to be more modern.
> After all, the way the previous publishers > handled such matters is a moot
> point since they released the books riddled with > errors and
> inconsistencies.> > Project Aon--21st Century Publishing, Baby.> > -- > Simon
> Osborne> Project Aon Pedant> > ~~~~~~> Manage your subscription at
> http://www.freelists.org/list/projectaon> >
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