[access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?

  • From: Dave Sheridan <dsheridan65@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:29:59 +0000

Important here is Clive's point about developing one's literacy skills, this 
will be much more productive through reading using hard copy or a braille 
display rather than listening through a tablet or pc. Braille has to be the 
answer along with the different pieces of technology for someone who can't 
access print and currently RNIB are failing to promote braille as they should 
at all levels of the organisation and to provide the braille on request to 
those that require it.  

Dave 
Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 Jan 2015, at 15:12, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> 
> Assuming you can afford one. Not talking about me, but there are plenty of 
> people out there who'd struggle to buy one.
> 
> 
> Clive
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Iain Lackie
> Sent: 22 January 2015 15:03
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?
> 
> Not necessarily. If you are using a Braille display, you are not being read 
> to.
> 
> Iain
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 2:57 PM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> If you are using Tablet devices to access the written word, you are being 
> read to, albeit by a mgadget that you own. If you read braille, you are 
> reading, and with that can come the benefits of literacy. It's a faff to have 
> to review a word to find out how it is spelled, so that you can, say, write 
> it correctly in a study assignment. If you mis-spell it, the appearance of 
> your work will suffer, and you could be marked down for it. 
> Whatever happened to the Right To Read campaign, and would it be different 
> from "the right to be read to?"
> 
> Best,
> Clive
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Steve Nutt
> Sent: 22 January 2015 14:36
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> I have to disagree that a page of Braille makes no sound.  If you listen 
> carefully to In Touch, you can hear Peter White's fingers flying over the 
> Braille. <Smile>.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Steve
> 
> --
> Computer Room Services
> 77 Exeter Close
> Stevenage
> Hertfordshire
> SG1 4PW
> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
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> Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Mike Ray
> Sent: 22 January 2015 14:22
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?
> 
> 
> Braille is important:
> 
> 1.  A piece of paper with dots on it doesn't stop working when the power 
> goes off and it doesn't have batteries that go flat.
> 
> 2.  Small items can be labelled with Braille and negate the need for gadgets 
> like the Pen Friend which, although a fantastic little gizmo, is overkill 
> for stuff like labelling CD cases.
> 
> 3.  Braille not3es and note taking are easier when you're on the move.
> 
> 4.  Braille is less intrusive if you're sitting in a metting/conference with 
> a whole bunch of sighted folks.  If you're giving some kind of presentation 
> just a page with a few lines of Braille on it makes no sound and is, after 
> all, synonymous with how a sighted person refers to notes in a similar 
> situation.
> 
> I would encourage, ne plead, all visually impaired youngsters to continue to 
> learn and keep using Braille.
> 
> We owe it to those who have gone before and those coming after us to keep it 
> alive.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22/01/2015 14:15, Jackie Brown wrote:
>> Well Karl, you are definitely wide of the mark on that score although,
>> of course, you are entitled to your opinion, (smile).  I agree it has
>> become
> an
>> even more expensive format, but one that those of us who prefer it are
>> entitled to have provided when ordering items from RNIB.  I notice
>> that
> when
>> I order from them nowadays, I have to ask, and often have clarified,
>> that
> I
>> want Braille instructions.  For smaller items it really doesn't
>> matter,
> but
>> for something more complex it is useful.
>> 
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Jackie Brown
>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>> Skype: thejackmate
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf
> Of
>> Karl Proud
>> Sent: 22 January 2015 13:49
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?
>> 
>> I guess that some people do see the printed word as old tech,
>> certainly
> the
>> school my kids go to seem pretty obsessed with tablets etc.  I'm
>> afraid
> that
>> I am one of those blind folk who do consider braille old fuddy duddy
>> technology, but then again I'm wrong about most things.
>> 
>> Karl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 22 Jan 2015, at 1:33 pm, Mike Ray <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The RNIB now seems to be run by suits with little or no grasp of what
>> the customers really need.
>> 
>> In a world where everything is being dumbed-down to a lowest common
>> denominator what we are now seeing is charity bosses who see little
>> else than the bottom line.  How they got to that bottom line is of
>> little importance to them.  Just making the expenditure smaller and
>> the income bigger seems to be an end in itself now.
>> 
>> And no doubt one of the things that is pared to the bone to make the
> bottom
>> line look better is training for customer facing staff and expenditure
>> on what is seen as old technology.  And sadly Braille is perceived by
>> sighted folks, and a lot of blind folks now too, as old tech.
>> Although presumably sighted folks don't regard reading printed words as 
>> old tech.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22/01/2015 13:16, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>> Hi Dave,
>>> 
>>> Don't get me on my soap box about this one. Cynically, I sometimes
>>> wonder
>> whether the more they can dissuade congenitally blind people from
>> blocking their resources with loads of braille, the more they can
>> concentrate on their pet subject: "sight loss". If they tell customers
>> as a matter of course that braille copies will cost loads, take ages
>> or generate
> boatloads
>> of paper, they will get the answer they nudged their customer to give:
>> "Ok then, I'll have an audio version". Then they will say: "more and
>> more
> people
>> are using audio and fewer are reading braille, so Braille's on its way
> out".
>> Whooppee! They won't have to devote resources to it. Is there such a
>> thing as "Lowp! (the opposite of hype), or of demoting rather than
>> promoting a service? I encountered similar problems when I was asking
>> for computer manuals as far back as 1982, so sadly, your tale leads me
>> to think nothing has changed, except that the Institute sometimes
>> appears to be suffering from sight loss itself..
>> .i
>>> t's lost sight of the ball! I've usually found that a rough equation
>> stands me in good stead: Two-and-a-half to three braille pages for
>> every
> a4
>> side of dense print in a pretty standard font size. So, when I read
>> the original was 96 pages, I thought "300's going to be nearer the
>> mark. I
> read
>> on, And surprise, surprise!
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Clive
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>>> Sent: 22 January 2015 12:37
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] RNIB, how inefficient are they?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I recently received a Plextalk pocket portable daisy player as a present.
>> The kind person who gave me this enquired about braille instructions
>> and
> was
>> told that they could do this but they would be about 600 pages. The
>> person accepted that audio instructions would suffice. After receipt
>> of said
> player
>> I rang to ask for braille instructions and was told the same thing. I
> asked
>> for the braille copy. Interestingly the audio contents goes up to page
>> 96
> so
>> I was a little confused why this would translate to 600 braille pages.
> I've
>> just received the instructions in 3 volumes totalling just under 300
>> A4 pages. Clearly those people providing potential customers with
>> information should be well informed and clearly they are not:
>>> 
>>> To add to this a friend of mine who took out a subscription to the
> talking
>> book service has been perplexed by RNIB sending books which don't
>> appear
> on
>> the list she supplied them with. This has occurred twice now within a
> short
>> period of time, firstly with books she hadn't ordered appearing on a
>> pen drive sent to her and since then having changed to disc she has
>> been sent other titles not ordered by her. Having experienced this
>> myself over some considerable time before I was blunt with them I I do
>> wonder why their customer service is so poor. As you have to ask for
>> braille instructions these days you would think they would give good
>> information and not try to put you off getting them to do the job they are 
>> there to do.
>>> 
>>> Dave  Sent from my iPhone** To leave the list, click on the
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Michael A. Ray
>> Analyst/Programmer
>> Witley, Surrey, South-east UK
>> 
>> Don't judge my disability until you witness my ability
>> 
>> Interested in accessibility on the Raspberry Pi?
>> Visit: http://www.raspberryvi.org/
>> From where you can join our mailing list for visually-impaired Pi
>> hackers
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> 
> 
> --
> Michael A. Ray
> Analyst/Programmer
> Witley, Surrey, South-east UK
> 
> Don't judge my disability until you witness my ability
> 
> Interested in accessibility on the Raspberry Pi?
> Visit: http://www.raspberryvi.org/
> From where you can join our mailing list for visually-impaired Pi hackers
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