[access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?

  • From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 17:33:53 -0000

Hi,

If you see the literacy levels of some sighted people, I completely agree
with you.  You don't need Braille to know literacy, but you do to label a
tin and be able to read it, if you have no sight.  So Braille does have
uses, but I must admit, when my wife's NLB books arrived, 16 volumes in 8
sacks and I had to carry it in, I remembered why I don't want to read
Braille books again, when I can whip out my Kindle app on my Android or
iPhone.

All the best

Steve

--
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Karl Proud
Sent: 22 January 2015 16:48
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?

Dave er al,

As I commented earlier in what I hope was a gentle way my own somewhat
narrow perspective on the usefulness of braille, it should be said that
nobody I guess thinks that RNIB or other so-called advocacy service should
try to phase out their offer of braille by under promoting it as a solution
for those who use it.  But if it dies out through lack of use then some will
just have to wait until the apocalypse to say "I told you so!"
I do reject the idea that literacy can only be achieved or retained by
reading braille though.

Karl




On 22 Jan 2015, at 4:09 pm, Dave Sheridan <dsheridan65@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Several years ago when a petition was around on the web about the importance
of braille I put a motion to the National Congress of my union, the
University and College Union, encouraging delegates to sign up to this and
to go back to their universities and colleges to do likewise by encouraging
their colleagues to do so. To illustrate the importance of braille and
difficulty with voice synthesis and needing good listening skills I started
my speech using voice synthesis on my Braille Note. The point I got over was
that if we all, and I stressed all, had to take all information in through
listening to it being read to us then our literacy skills would soon
diminish. We owe it, as Mike has said, to those generations following us who
will need braille to study andin their work or leisure time to speak out so
that braille takes its rightful place and not be allowed to die. So maybe
for our own access needs, as was where I came in with this, maybe we can all
be more vocal and let 
people in powerful positions in RNIB know our perceptions and experiences
relating to braille by an organisation that should know and do much better. 

Dave    

Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 Jan 2015, at 15:33, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> 
> Hi
> Mike,
> 
> That's how I would campaign to promote the value of braille - produce a
video that imagines a world where all hard copy print is gone - no labels on
any goods in shops; no shop signs; no newspapers; no paper books in
libraries; no road signs; no pens; the non-digital written word has
disappeared, and the digital written word is only available through the more
expensive devices.W"ould they miss it? You bet they would! So then let them
tell us Braille has no worth. It would be a sort of Fahrenheit 451 idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> Clive
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Mike Ray
> Sent: 22 January 2015 13:33
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: RNIB, how inefficient are they?
> 
> 
> The RNIB now seems to be run by suits with little or no grasp of what the
customers really need.
> 
> In a world where everything is being dumbed-down to a lowest common
denominator what we are now seeing is charity bosses who see little else
than the bottom line.  How they got to that bottom line is of little
importance to them.  Just making the expenditure smaller and the income
bigger seems to be an end in itself now.
> 
> And no doubt one of the things that is pared to the bone to make the
bottom line look better is training for customer facing staff and
expenditure on what is seen as old technology.  And sadly Braille is
perceived by sighted folks, and a lot of blind folks now too, as old tech.
Although presumably sighted folks don't regard reading printed words as old
tech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22/01/2015 13:16, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>> 
>> Don't get me on my soap box about this one. Cynically, I sometimes wonder
whether the more they can dissuade congenitally blind people from blocking
their resources with loads of braille, the more they can concentrate on
their pet subject: "sight loss". If they tell customers as a matter of
course that braille copies will cost loads, take ages or generate boatloads
of paper, they will get the answer they nudged their customer to give: "Ok
then, I'll have an audio version". Then they will say: "more and more people
are using audio and fewer are reading braille, so Braille's on its way out".
Whooppee! They won't have to devote resources to it. Is there such a thing
as "Lowp! (the opposite of hype), or of demoting rather than promoting a
service? I encountered similar problems when I was asking for computer
manuals as far back as 1982, so sadly, your tale leads me to think nothing
has changed, except that the Institute sometimes appears to be suffering
from sight loss itself.
.
> .i
>> t's lost sight of the ball! I've usually found that a rough equation
stands me in good stead: Two-and-a-half to three braille pages for every a4
side of dense print in a pretty standard font size. So, when I read the
original was 96 pages, I thought "300's going to be nearer the mark. I read
on, And surprise, surprise!
>> 
>> Best,
>> Clive
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>> Sent: 22 January 2015 12:37
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] RNIB, how inefficient are they?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I recently received a Plextalk pocket portable daisy player as a present.
The kind person who gave me this enquired about braille instructions and was
told that they could do this but they would be about 600 pages. The person
accepted that audio instructions would suffice. After receipt of said player
I rang to ask for braille instructions and was told the same thing. I asked
for the braille copy. Interestingly the audio contents goes up to page 96 so
I was a little confused why this would translate to 600 braille pages. I've
just received the instructions in 3 volumes totalling just under 300 A4
pages. Clearly those people providing potential customers with information
should be well informed and clearly they are not: 
>> 
>> To add to this a friend of mine who took out a subscription to the
talking book service has been perplexed by RNIB sending books which don't
appear on the list she supplied them with. This has occurred twice now
within a short period of time, firstly with books she hadn't ordered
appearing on a pen drive sent to her and since then having changed to disc
she has been sent other titles not ordered by her. Having experienced this
myself over some considerable time before I was blunt with them I I do
wonder why their customer service is so poor. As you have to ask for braille
instructions these days you would think they would give good information and
not try to put you off getting them to do the job they are there to do. 
>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> Michael A. Ray
> Analyst/Programmer
> Witley, Surrey, South-east UK
> 
> Don't judge my disability until you witness my ability
> 
> Interested in accessibility on the Raspberry Pi?
> Visit: http://www.raspberryvi.org/
> From where you can join our mailing list for visually-impaired Pi hackers
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