Hi Damon, So aren't sighted people unemployed as well? I don't understand this we should get it cheap, because we are blind business. All the best -- Computer Room Services: the long cane for blind computer users. Telephone Voice: +44(0)1438 742286, Fax/BBS: +44(0)1438 759589 mobile: +44(0)7956 334938, Email: Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Damon Sent: 16 April 2005 06:01 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? 70% of blind men are unemployed tho. 90% of blind women ... according to the last stats I saw. Hence books should be available at a reasonable price. Anyhoo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <angel238@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:16 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > Not necessarily. A blind person must be especially creative when looking > for employment as many jobs are closed to him for one reason or other. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Damon Rose" <damon.rose@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:57 AM > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > > > > Blindness is also synonymous with poverty. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf > > Of Angel > > Sent: 15 April 2005 15:54 > > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > > > > > > I agree, but blindness is synonymous with expensive, and inconvenient. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tyrer, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Tyrer@xxxxxxxxxxx> > > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 4:30 AM > > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > > > > > > > I have no problem paying for books - book sharing isn't about getting > > > free > > books. What really pisses me off though is having to spend three > > bleeding hours scanning the bugger in before I can read it! > > > > > > JT > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On > > > Behalf Of Ray's Home > > > Sent: 14 April 2005 16:34 > > > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > > > > > > > > > Well Angel, if I might join in, lending libraries here in the UK are a > > public service, well what's left of them! The notion of public service > > has taken quite a pasting here in the last quarter century so, not > > surprisingly, you are often hard pressed to find the latest books there. > > > > > > As for 'rational' arguments for stealing, well certain theologians in > > > the > > middle ages did argue that stealing food for survival was OK, just as > > much as you needed to stay alive that is. I guess Daman is arguing for > > the right for food for the soul, as man/woman does not live by food > > alone. > > > > > > I can only say that what's left of my reason is down to a lot of > > > reading, > > much of it on tape, when I was very down and depressed. The sheer farce > > of trying to study at a higher level without anything approaching the > > breadth of material available to other students has to be gone through > > to be believed. > > > > > > I still have just enough sight to buy books in print occasionally and > > > its > > certainly a sad fact that your average high street bookshop these days > > has many times more books available to buy than we get our hands on in > > all the various formats. I just wonder how much those here would be > > prepared to pay to own a copy if that were an option. Seems to me that > > unabridged audio books are always going to be at a premium price > > although I do not see that the margin has to be as high as it is now. > > > > > > Obviously, this is a very involved subject when you get down to it. I > > just wonder how greater percentage of text material can and will be made > > available, and more to the point, how? Taking the risk of resurrecting > > the format wars here, Braille versus audio versus computer etc. just how > > will the extreme demand for stuff in whatever format we want hold up to > > reality? > > > > > > By the way, I've shortened the whole message here as, apart from > > > wondering > > offoff the original topic, I feared it would excede the file size > > allowed on this list! > > > Ray > > > > > > Personal emails: Email me at > > > mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Angel" > > > > > > > Libraries give books for free because of their community obligation, > > > > > > not because of a human rite any may have. Have you tried to get the > > > > > > books > > you > > > > seek from sources like Audible.com. The people there have gone out > > > > of > > their > > > > way to make their site and books accessible to us. There is no > > > > rational explanation for stealing. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Damon Rose" > > > > > > > >> Why shouldn't access to the latest cultural input be seen as a > > > >> human > > > > right? Libraries give reference books and novels out for free for > > similar > > > > reasons, surely? > > > >> > > > >> What about classic books of our time, thos that are social > > > >> commentaries > > > > such as 1984 or Catcher in the Rye? They're touchstones in common > > parliance, > > > > using the term 'big brother society' uses a character from a novel > > > > to shortcut, yet also add colour to, an explanation about a > > > > complicated > > concept > > > > that was neatly wrapped up by Orwell. > > > >> > > > >> Books like Turn of the Century in 1999 really tapped into the > > > > technological and social zeitgeist. > > > >> > > > >> Books such as Fast Food Nation or Jon Snow's autobiography Shooting > > > > History, for instance, are not exactly reference books but contain > > > > an > > awful > > > > lot of important and significant commentary and information. > > > >> > > > >> It's hard to draw the line and there's no good reason to continue > > > >> to > > make > > > > books inaccessible. > > > >> > > > >> I would prefer to pay publishers and authors for their work so that > > they > > > > will continue to publish great books. I would like authors to > > > > benefit > > from > > > > my individual purchase. But if books are inaccessible then they > > > > kind of have to accept that we steal their texts. > > > >> > > > >> In a lot of ways, they are stealing things away from us in the > > > >> first > > > > place, we're just steeling it bak again. > > > >> > > > >> ...Damon > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > Angel > > > >> > > > >> How do you figure having access to the latest novels or whatever > > > >> you > > want > > > > to read is a basic human rite. In which constitution does it say > > > > this? > > If > > > > you can't read print you can either purchase a scanner and reading > > software, > > > > or go to the library and use their equipment for such pursuits. > > > > Though basic literacy has been found to be a basic human rite being > > > > able to > > read > > > > > > > your favorite novel is not. > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> From: "Damon" > > > > > > >> > Yes, it's a shame isn't it. > > > >> > > > > >> > I download illegally shared eBooks too because I can't read > > > >> > print. > > > >> > > > > >> > Access to knowledge and culture is a human right and, I'd say we > > can't > > > >> > really describe it as thievery. I'd describe it as taking > > > >> > something that should rightfully be in our domain anyway. > > > >> > > > > >> > It's only thievery if one can get it thru the normal means. If > > > >> > you are denied access to it, yet fundamentally it should be a > > > >> > human > > right, > > > >> > then > > > >> you > > > >> > have to be creative and inventive about gaining access to it. > > > >> > > > > >> > ...Damon > > > >> > > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: "Angel" > > > >> > > > > >> > > I would hate to think that to become a part of society one must > > > > > >> > > resort > > > >> to > > > >> > > thievery. > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > From: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I use exactly the same argument regarding downloading tv > > > >> > > > shows on > > > >> > > BitTorrent. If the manufacturers and service providers of > > > >> > > things like > > > >> > TiVo > > > >> > > and Sky Digital don't bother to make their products accessible > > > >> > > then I'll steal their content from elsewhere in order that I > > > >> > > can be part of this > > > >> > here > > > >> > > society. Thank you. And yes I'd be happy to see what a > > > >> > > courtroom made > > > >> of > > > >> > > that too. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > > Of Tyrer, Jonathan > > > >> > > > Sent: 13 April 2005 15:42 > > > >> > > > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >> > > > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I wonder if I should turn myself into the police for pirating > > > > > >> > > > music > > > >> from > > > >> > > the Net. None of the pay for music sites are accessible so I > > > >> > > am forced > > > >> to > > > >> > > steal music instead. I'd like to go to court for that I think! > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > JT > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > > Damon Rose > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Here's another solution. Why don't we just all sue Apple? > > > >> > > > Or mail > > > >> them > > > >> > > in our droves? All the faffing around we have to do to gain a > > weeny > > > >> > > bit > > > >> > of > > > >> > > access, whilst still giving these companies our money, really > > really > > > >> bugs > > > >> > > the hell out of me. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > > > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > > > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > > > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > ** and in the Subject line type > > > ** unsubscribe > > > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > > > ** immediately-following link:- > > > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > > > ** or send a message, to > > > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > > > > > > > > -- > > > DISCLAIMER: > > > > > > NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is > > > > > confidential and may be privileged. 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