[AR] Re: Just where does space start?
- From: Bill Claybaugh <wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 07:59:30 -0400
Rick:
I looked into this question back in the late '90's: there is not--and is
unlikely to be--any "official" definition of where space begins. The reason for
this is the claim by some equatorial countries that their territory extends to
geostationary orbit. Since an "official" standard would defacto require
reopening the Space Treaty--a prospect for which the US Department of State has
no stomach--the USG instead holds that it has no position on this question. So
long as that remains the USG position, there will not be any "official"
international position on this question.
The EU, OTOH, has proposed 100 km for this definition. I believe that the CATS
folks decided to use 100 km as their definition since the RRS dart had very
likely exceeded 50 statute miles, thus requiring a higher altitude for their
prize. Since CATS, it is my impression that the amateur community has accepted
100 km as the defining limit for purpose of feat claiming.
Assertion is not argument: I do not doubt the claimed performance of the 2014
flight, but until there is a reviewable publication of the data and the
analysis, it is just another unproven claim. Credible to be sure, but unproven.
The meaning of "amateur" was a a big discussion during CATS; they eventually
hit on "non-governmental" which ruled out using any government funds or
subsidies not available to all. I may be mis-recalling this, but I believe they
also ruled out commercial motors: that prize was intent on a "homebuilt"
solution, I believe.
Whether a commercial organization flying commercial hardware qualifies as an
amateur record is not for me to decide. For myself, I am looking to eventually
get to 100 km altitudes using hardware that is entirely homebuilt; that, to me,
is a fully "amateur" project.
Bill
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 31, 2014, at 6:10, Rick Maschek <rickmaschek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks Bill. A question people have asked for a long time has been where does
> space start?
> For the Air Force it had been 50 miles and many feel it is now 62 miles (100
> kilometers). Using the 50 mile standard, the RRS team reached space in 1996,
> using the 62 mile standard, CSXT likely reached space, if not the 72 miles
> they say was reached in 2004 and again last month...see below.
>
> If we are successful, I wouldn't consider us the first to reach space; as for
> first with the homebuilt part, that might be debatable but doesn't really
> matter. One could easily post other altitudes as firsts but to me the two
> that would really be 'firsts' for amateurs would be to obtain orbit and the
> second would be to escape from the earth entirely. There may soon be a team
> doing that first one shortly.
>
> Rick
>
> From GoFast 2014 Space Launch Team
>
> The GoFast 2014 rocket officially set a new world record on July 14, 2014 as
> the highest and fastest amateur rocket ever launched into space.
>
> Analysis of the data from the recovered military grade Inertial Measurement
> Unit (IMU) that flew onboard shows that the GoFast rocket reached 385,800
> feet above mean sea level (73.1 miles) and hit a top speed of 3,580 miles per
> hour. The old record held by the CSXT’s GoFast 2004 rocket was 72 miles with
> a top speed of 3,420 mph.
>
> The GoFast 2014 IMU had flown successfully on four commercial space missions
> at White Sands Missile Range (WSMR) in New Mexico and was calibrated using
> C-Band transponder US Army radar tracking data prior to its flight into space
> on the GoFast rocket July 14, 2014. Statistical analysis of the WSMR flights
> and the GoFast 2014 launch verifies the 73.1 miles attained by the GoFast
> rocket has a variation of 0.6 miles with a confidence level of 95%.
>
> Congratulations to everyone for a job well done! Thank you so much for
> everyone’s participation and endless hours making this launch a success.
>
> GoFast 2014 list of accomplishments;
> • World record highest altitude rocket launch
> • World record fastest speed rocket launch
> • First photo taken from space onboard an amateur rocket
> • Second amateur rocket in history to reach space
>
>
>
> From: Bill Claybaugh <wclaybaugh2@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [AR] Re: Super Loki Dart design documents
> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 09:35:21 -0400
>
> Since the CSXT team has never proven their claim to have reached 72 miles;
> should you succeed and publish, you will be the first to prove that you
> reached space with a homebuilt.
> Good luck!
>
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 1:51, Rick Maschek <rickmaschek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > That's cool Mark. Last year when we were at White Sands for an UP Aerospace
> > launch we also investigated several sounding rockets at the missile range.
> > Two of them were the Lokis and after taking measurements we constructed a
> > similar vehicle that we are in fact testing next weekend at the FAR site in
> > California. We are hoping to get one of these variants in space 2015-2016.
> >
> >
> > Rick
> >
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