Pyrotechnics Operator classes are a California thing. I know of no
other state that has the same setup. Many states do have some
restriction on who is allowed to fire commercial pyrotechnic displays,
with training given by the local fireworks distributor, but it's not
seen the same as aerospace development.
As far as I know no one in any of the companies I've been involved
with firing liquid rockets in Alaska, California, New Mexico, Texas,
Alabama, or Florida had any pyro certs. Many of them had been checked
out by the local fire brigade.
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 5:23 AM <willsrw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi
Could I get a point of clarification, does a commercial for profit company
need to have a Pyrotechnic Operator--Rockets Third Class license to test or
operate their product? What about commercial flight operations, is a Pyro
still needed? Also, is there a difference between the fireworks license and
the rocket license. Could someone give me a web site for CalFire that
discuss rocket operator licensing requirements and necessary experience. I
wonder if any other states will take this form of licensing.
Michigan is trying to set up a space port for vertical launches on the
northern shore of the Upper Peninsula outside of Marquette. At the North
American Space Summit (Traverse City, Oct 2020), I ask one of one of the
spaceport organizers about launcher qualifications, they hadn’t thought that
far yet. I look to other states to create a similar rocket licenses.
Spaceport America doesn’t require any specific operator qualifications but
they review each project on its own merits.
In Ohio, to conduct liquid static test firings, you only need the permission
of the land owner. I lease land in Xenia Ohio to test our engines. The land
owner requires I inform the local fire department (only 1.5 miles away).
Everyone participating signs a wavier to be on the land during operations. I
stop by the fire station and discuss what we plan to do a few days before the
test shot. The firemen have been very receptive so far.
Take Care, Be Safe, and Stay Healthy,
Rick Wills
Huber Heights, Ohio
From: arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Tyler Adkison
Sent: Friday, 22 January, 2021 6:30 PM
To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AR] Re: Pythom Space safety concerns
Michael, as far as I can tell from their website, they got $500k from an
investment group calling itself "Space Cowboys". No, I don't get it either.
It looks like they might have a single mechanical engineer. Looking at the
media page, I couldn't help but feel a deep pain inside when I saw the nitric
acid setup.
https://www.pythomspace.com/media/images/space/330.png
https://www.pythomspace.com/media/images/space/331.png
Spectracide stump remover, concentrated sulfuric acid and no PPE in sight.
Ken, that's much closer than I was expecting. I'll email you directly, but is
Adobe Valley (Rocket Ranch) open for business? If so, it would be much closer
for us than FAR. I've heard great things about it in its glory days and would
love to make fire there once again. We need to have a pyro operator to
supervise us while we work on gaining experience for our logbooks.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 3:06 PM roxanna Mason <rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Tyler, I'm in the Auburn foothills near Colfax. Also I'm part owner of the
Adobe Vally(rocket ranch) behind Mt. Hamilton.
Ken
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 1:26 PM Tyler Adkison <tyler.adkison@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I wish them the best, but If I was them, I'd recommend taking down that video
ASAP, preferably before someone makes a copy that could find itself in the
hands of future investors or CalFire. Drone footage is nice but it is also
possible to have just too much, and a gimbal is good investment for handheld
footage. It's also worthwhile considering how you want to present your
company image.
Keeping some of the safety procedures in is a great touch and I appreciate
how there were technical details, but I agree that the safety procedures they
were employing were insufficient.
Finally, Ken, roughly which region of CA are you in? I'm part of a Berkeley
rocketry club and we are trying to get 2-3 members certified with Pyrotechnic
Operator Rockets Class One licenses so we can start testing closer to home,
rather than having to bring everything to FAR. We are in touch with CalFire,
but are looking for local PyroOps who we can work with and learn from. If you
are interested or know other PyroOps in the Bay Area, I'd love to know.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 10:10 AM roxanna Mason <rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I don't think Randa sanctioned them, they may have met one time out at Mojave
and instantly thought they can do that, just judging from their work.
Like going to a concert and seeing how 'easy' a musician performs his
masterpieces. It always looks easier than it really is.
They should start out with GOx and a hydrocarbon to get shock diamonds. At
least with one gaseous propellant it's nearly impossible to fragment your TCA.
Then build on your confidence locating a mentor wherever you can even if at a
long distance.
Ken
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 8:21 AM Henry Vanderbilt <hvanderbilt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I watched the whole video, listening carefully (despite the awful
faux-portentious soundtrack, which I wish rocket teams would STOP DOING for
their vids as it's overdone to the point of obnoxiousness.)
RE the propellants involved, at 2:10 the checklist reader states "we are
using three-and-a-half liters nitric acid, four liters furfuryl acohol, at
250 psi".
I am utterly unsurprised the Millirons are associated, both on the general
much-ado-about-little-visible-substance approach, and on a number of subtle
style cues - let's just say that you get a feeling for these things after
enough decades on the scene.
Looking at the website team listing, there does not seem to be a great deal
of actual rocket expertise involved.
Yes, if someone can persuade these people they want to take a few more basic
precautions against involuntary nitric acid showers, not to mention against
breathing the orange cloud drifting (fortunately) up and away after, it would
be a good thing.
Henry
On 1/22/2021 8:31 AM, David Spain wrote:
On 1/21/2021 8:49 PM, George Herbert wrote:
See: https://player.vimeo.com/video/500339036 ;
<https://player.vimeo.com/video/500339036>
And https://pythomspace.com
They’re in Bishop, California doing a currently small WFNA/something
hypergolic rocket motor
I did a little sleuthing off their website. Here they mention consultation
with friends at Interorbital (para 9):
https://www.pythom.com/ps/Pythomspace-First-Hot-Test-Hell-Yeah-2021-01-15-27998
Now over at the Interorbital website, they mention their Neptune rocket which
is powered by WFNA and turpentine.
Here para-4:
https://www.interorbital.com/Launch%20Vehicles
I doubt that the information about Interorbital is news to the regulars here.
Also see the video above at 01:52 one of the team opening pressure values on
what I would presume are nitrogen tanks, with the silver (stainless steel?)
tanks behind them presumably containing fuel and oxidizer. There is also a
point in the video at 2:03 showing a team member adding what I presume is a
reactant from a step ladder to an opening at the top of the trailer. Note
also from the 01:52 video still, the feed lines running from the roof of the
trailer into the silver tanks. Since nitrogen valves are also mentioned in
the video. So I'm willing to make a (small) wager that they are using a
pressure fed GN2 with WFNA/Turpentine engine.
As per lack of shock diamonds, they mention that in the above link in para 13.
So George, I hope you are able to reach them sooner rather than later.
5... 3... 4... 2... 1...
Dave
