Rick:
The particulars of California law wrt pyrotechnician rocket licenses are
described at the FAR website; the law can be found at CalFire’s website.
I am not aware of any other state that licenses the subclass of “rocket”
pyrotechnician. Many but not all states require a pyrotechnicians’ license
for fireworks operators; NAR used to have a list of which states so
required and may still do at their website.
Holding a California license does not transfer to any other state as a
general rule of American Constitutional law; it is possible that another
state might choose to recognize that license but I am not aware of any that
so do.
Bill
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 8:23 PM <willsrw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi
Could I get a point of clarification, does a commercial for profit company
need to have a Pyrotechnic Operator--Rockets Third Class license to test
or operate their product? What about commercial flight operations, is a
Pyro still needed? Also, is there a difference between the fireworks
license and the rocket license. Could someone give me a web site for
CalFire that discuss rocket operator licensing requirements and necessary
experience. I wonder if any other states will take this form of licensing.
Michigan is trying to set up a space port for vertical launches on the
northern shore of the Upper Peninsula outside of Marquette. At the North
American Space Summit (Traverse City, Oct 2020), I ask one of one of the
spaceport organizers about launcher qualifications, they hadn’t thought
that far yet. I look to other states to create a similar rocket licenses.
Spaceport America doesn’t require any specific operator qualifications but
they review each project on its own merits.
In Ohio, to conduct liquid static test firings, you only need the
permission of the land owner. I lease land in Xenia Ohio to test our
engines. The land owner requires I inform the local fire department (only
1.5 miles away). Everyone participating signs a wavier to be on the land
during operations. I stop by the fire station and discuss what we plan to
do a few days before the test shot. The firemen have been very receptive
so far.
Take Care, Be Safe, and Stay Healthy,
Rick Wills
Huber Heights, Ohio
*From:* arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On
Behalf Of *Tyler Adkison
*Sent:* Friday, 22 January, 2021 6:30 PM
*To:* arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [AR] Re: Pythom Space safety concerns
Michael, as far as I can tell from their website, they got $500k from an
investment group calling itself "Space Cowboys". No, I don't get it either.
It looks like they might have a single mechanical engineer. Looking at the
media page, I couldn't help but feel a deep pain inside when I saw the
nitric acid setup.
https://www.pythomspace.com/media/images/space/330.png
https://www.pythomspace.com/media/images/space/331.png
Spectracide stump remover, concentrated sulfuric acid and no PPE in sight.
Ken, that's much closer than I was expecting. I'll email you directly, but
is Adobe Valley (Rocket Ranch) open for business? If so, it would be much
closer for us than FAR. I've heard great things about it in its glory days
and would love to make fire there once again. We need to have a pyro
operator to supervise us while we work on gaining experience for our
logbooks.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 3:06 PM roxanna Mason <rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Tyler, I'm in the Auburn foothills near Colfax. Also I'm part owner of the
Adobe Vally(rocket ranch) behind Mt. Hamilton.
Ken
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 1:26 PM Tyler Adkison <tyler.adkison@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I wish them the best, but If I was them, I'd recommend taking down that
video ASAP, preferably before someone makes a copy that could find itself
in the hands of future investors or CalFire. Drone footage is nice but it
is also possible to have just too much, and a gimbal is good investment for
handheld footage. It's also worthwhile considering how you want to present
your company image.
Keeping some of the safety procedures in is a great touch and I appreciate
how there were technical details, but I agree that the safety procedures
they were employing were insufficient.
Finally, Ken, roughly which region of CA are you in? I'm part of a
Berkeley rocketry club and we are trying to get 2-3 members certified with
Pyrotechnic Operator Rockets Class One licenses so we can start testing
closer to home, rather than having to bring everything to FAR. We are in
touch with CalFire, but are looking for local PyroOps who we can work with
and learn from. If you are interested or know other PyroOps in the Bay
Area, I'd love to know.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 10:10 AM roxanna Mason <rocketmaster.ken@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I don't think Randa sanctioned them, they may have met one time out at
Mojave and instantly thought they can do that, just judging from their work.
Like going to a concert and seeing how 'easy' a musician performs his
masterpieces. It always looks easier than it really is.
They should start out with GOx and a hydrocarbon to get shock diamonds. At
least with one gaseous propellant it's nearly impossible to fragment your
TCA.
Then build on your confidence locating a mentor wherever you can even if
at a long distance.
Ken
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 8:21 AM Henry Vanderbilt <
hvanderbilt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I watched the whole video, listening carefully (despite the awful
faux-portentious soundtrack, which I wish rocket teams would STOP DOING for
their vids as it's overdone to the point of obnoxiousness.)
RE the propellants involved, at 2:10 the checklist reader states "we are
using three-and-a-half liters nitric acid, four liters furfuryl acohol, at
250 psi".
I am utterly unsurprised the Millirons are associated, both on the general
much-ado-about-little-visible-substance approach, and on a number of subtle
style cues - let's just say that you get a feeling for these things after
enough decades on the scene.
Looking at the website team listing, there does not seem to be a great
deal of actual rocket expertise involved.
Yes, if someone can persuade these people they want to take a few more
basic precautions against involuntary nitric acid showers, not to mention
against breathing the orange cloud drifting (fortunately) up and away
after, it would be a good thing.
Henry
On 1/22/2021 8:31 AM, David Spain wrote:
On 1/21/2021 8:49 PM, George Herbert wrote:
See: https://player.vimeo.com/video/500339036
<https://player.vimeo.com/video/500339036>
<https://player.vimeo.com/video/500339036>
And https://pythomspace.com
They’re in Bishop, California doing a currently small WFNA/something
hypergolic rocket motor
I did a little sleuthing off their website. Here they mention consultation
with friends at Interorbital (para 9):
https://www.pythom.com/ps/Pythomspace-First-Hot-Test-Hell-Yeah-2021-01-15-27998
Now over at the Interorbital website, they mention their Neptune rocket
which is powered by WFNA and turpentine.
Here para-4:
https://www.interorbital.com/Launch%20Vehicles
I doubt that the information about Interorbital is news to the regulars
here.
Also see the video above at 01:52 one of the team opening pressure values
on what I would presume are nitrogen tanks, with the silver (stainless
steel?) tanks behind them presumably containing fuel and oxidizer. There is
also a point in the video at 2:03 showing a team member adding what I
presume is a reactant from a step ladder to an opening at the top of the
trailer. Note also from the 01:52 video still, the feed lines running from
the roof of the trailer into the silver tanks. Since nitrogen valves are
also mentioned in the video. So I'm willing to make a (small) wager that
they are using a pressure fed GN2 with WFNA/Turpentine engine.
As per lack of shock diamonds, they mention that in the above link in para
13.
So George, I hope you are able to reach them sooner rather than later.
5... 3... 4... 2... 1...
Dave
