[opendtv] Re: 70th Anniversary Blu-ray and standard DVDs of the Wizard of Oz

  • From: "Stessen, Jeroen" <jeroen.stessen@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 16:00:29 +0200

Hello all,

Cliff Benham wrote:
> I also connected a 4:3 Tektronix 650HR NTSC monitor to the NTSC output of
> the Blu-ray player and get a picture that will not fill the screen properly.
> The 'zoom' feature on the Philips player does not work in any mode.

Please don't shoot the messenger, I was not involved in players or content.
I am only guessing:
- the NTSC output is intended only for playing DVDs (720x480)
- the zoom features are intended only for DVDs, either for displaying
  4:3 content on a 16:9 display (pillarbox, or movie expand with 25%
  vertical crop which is mostly intended for letterboxed content), or for
  16:9 content on a 4:3 display (letterbox, or pan&scan)

BluRay is 16:9 content for 16:9 displays. There is no reason for zoom.
In your particular case, the 4:3 movie was padded with side pillars to
a 16:9 format. For all practical purposes that makes it a 16:9 content,
and it is no longer intended for a 4:3 display. There IS no native 4:3
high definition format for BluRay, only 4:3 standard definition for DVD.

> The disk is authored such that it plays incorrectly [slightly
> squeezed horizontally] on a 16:9 HD display,

This I can not explain. 1280x720 or 1920x1080 should always be correct.
Unless a CRT display is calibrated wrongly ?

> and with an aspect ratio of 1:1 on an NTSC 4:3 display.

Not a valid use case. Nobody in his right mind buys a BR disc and
expensive player to watch it on an NTSC display, or even a 4:3 display.
We have been selling 16:9 TVs since 1989 or so, so it is a valid
assumption in the year 2009 that people have access to 16:9 displays.
Especially those people who love movies. That's called progress.

Jeroen:
>> There are no 4:3 HDTV formats in
>> the ATSC table 3, therefore there are no such signals or displays.
>> You can not blame a BluRay player for sending the "wrong" signal to a
>> display that is not supposed to exist.

Cliff replies:
> Not *supposed* to exist? They do exist. What reality does Philips operate 
> under?

I'm not talking about computer displays or HT projectors made from
obsolete parts (i.e. 4:3 picture tubes or LCDs). I am talking about
displays dedicated to HDTV. I have never seen one that was 4:3.
The only exception to 16:9 that I have ever seen is 21:9, I see that
one every evening in my own home. I guess it would give you a major
headache. I own very little 4:3 content, 90% of my DVDs are 16:9.
Exceptions are Pinocchio and the first 3 seasons of Buffy. Those are
shown with a combination of black side bars and horizontal distortion.
It only bothers me that this disables the left and right Ambilights.

> This appears to be a good example of 'The Emperor's new clothes'.
> Whether Philips likes it or not there ARE millions [billions?]
> of 4:3 displays in the world and your player won't output a proper
> signal to fill the screen of ANY of them.

I am not interested in SDTVs. BluRay players are connected to HDTV
displays, period. And HDTV displays are always 16:9. Obviously all
BR players are designed to give a proper image on all 16:9 displays.
That includes classic 4:3 movies that have been padded to 16:9.
With the exception of an unexplained minor geometry error that you
are reporting on a 16:9 display, I fail to see what is the problem ?

> What is the purpose of issuing a 1.33:1 film in the highest resolution
> possible only to have it play incorrectly on all displays?
> It is squeezed on 16:9 displays

If it looks squeezed to 4:3 then it's okay. It may look a bit too wide
(if you measure the borders) if there is vertical overscan (on the 16:9
display) and horizontal underscan (side bars). But circles should be
perfectly round. If not, then blame the author of the movie.

> and it is square on 4:3 displays.

Not a valid use case. Buy and play the 4:3 DVD version, problem solved.

> It is not possible to play this fim in its correct 1.33:1 aspect ratio.

BluRay disc to 16:9 HDTV,  DVD to 4:3 SDTV.  What's the problem ?

> This is a huge miss by all involved.

It looks to me like you have not bought a 16:9 HDTV yet ?
Look on the bright side: you can skip 20 years of TV history and
upgrade directly to 21:9.  ;-)

Groeten,
-- Jeroen

  Jeroen H. Stessen
  Specialist Picture Quality

  Philips Consumer Lifestyle
  Advanced Technology  (Eindhoven)
  High Tech Campus 37 - room 8.042
  5656 AE Eindhoven - Nederland


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