[access-uk] Re: Asda online.
- From: "Colin Fowler" <col.fowler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:45:54 -0000
Steve,
Accessibility and useability are intrinsically intertwined for many disabled
people, therefore it is essential that any website no matter the target
audiance understands about simplified user interaction.
I fully support Tink's response, accessibility goes further than useability
by Visually Impaired customers, it impacts on Learning Disability, Learning
Difficulty, Physical and Neurological as well as sensory impairment.
The business case speaks for itself too! Simplified useability and
interaction increases the customer profile and ensures full unimpeded access
for all manners of migrant and BME citizens.
Col
Colin Fowler
Disability Consultant
www.social-model.org.uk
Telephone: 01582 483283
Text/mobile: 07793 111 253
E-mail: Col.fowler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:21 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Asda online.
> Hi Leonie,
>
> I would argue that this is usability, not accessibility. Inaccessible =
> to me
> means you can't do it, and I don't believe this is the case with this =
> site.
> Tricky, but not impossible.
>
> Regarding fonts, I am by no means an expert, but I thought you could
> override what fonts the browser uses with your own settings, in IE I =
> thought
> you could anyway. Or am I wrong?
>
> All the best
> --
> Computer Room Services: =20
> the long cane for blind computer users.
> Telephone Low-call: 08452 606 277
> International: +44(0)1438 742286,
> Fax: +44(0)1438 759589
> mobile: +44(0)7956 334938,
> Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk =20
> =20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf =
> Of
> L=E9onie Watson
> Sent: 15 January 2007 16:07
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Asda online.
>
> Steve,
>
> Sorry not to leap into the fray, but this isn't a screen reader
> issue. There are many images that do not have alt text, including some =
> =3D of
> relatively high importance.
>
> For example, a graphical link leading to a special offer for Lenor
> fabric conditioner. As expert screen reader users, you and I might guess
> that "panels_r4/SB_lenors_fabcon_35257" leads to special offer =3D
> information, we might even follow the link to find out if we were =
> curious
> enough. =3D But, many people would find it confusing and would probably =
> never
> realise =3D what the link was intended for.
>
> It doesn't stop with screen readers though. As far as I can
> determine in a quick rummage, all font sizes are set in stone, as is the
> layout of the page. No good to=3D20
> There area multitude of rblms thatw o ffect peopewith cognitive,
> physical and someone with mild visual impairment who would benefit from
> increasing the size of text or maximising the size of the browser =3D =
> window.
>
> There are a multitude of other problems that would affect people
> with other disabilities as well. Accessibility is not just a visual
> impairment issue. It's a people issue.
>
> Regards,
> L=3DE9onie.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf =
> =3D
> Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 13 January 2007 23:32
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Asda online.
>
> Hi Leonie,
>
> As Mary says, no problem with Asda and Window-Eyes. No poor access =
> =3D3D =3D
> here.
>
> All the best
> --
> Computer Room Services: =3D3D20
> the long cane for blind computer users.
> Telephone Low-call: 08452 606 277
> International: +44(0)1438 742286,
> Fax: +44(0)1438 759589
> mobile: +44(0)7956 334938,
> Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk =3D3D20 =3D3D20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf =
> =3D
> =3D3D Of L=3D3DE9onie Watson
> Sent: 14 January 2007 14:03
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Asda online.
>
> Ray,
>
> Tesco of course would be quick to point out that they take online
> accessibility very seriously. Their main website is possible to use and =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D the access site marginally easier. They do now claim that =
> the two
> =3D sites =3D3D are =3D3D3D one and the same thing, just with different
> interfaces, =3D but the net =3D3D effect =3D3D3D is the same, two =
> different sites.
>
> Asda also provide two sites. The main site is very poor, whilst the
> access site is not too bad. It looks as though the two sites are =3D3D3D =
> =3D =3D3D
> entirely separate.
> =3D3D3D20
> =3D3D3D20
> Sainsburys provide just a single site and like the Tesco or Asda
> access sites, it is reasonably accessible.
>
> The questions I have are this:
>
> Why provide two sites? There is absolutely no need, economically,
> socially, accessibly or otherwise. The technology to create a single,
> accessible and user friendly site has long been around. Sainsburys are a
> fair example of this.
>
> Why not go for full standards compliant websites that conform to
> best practice accessibility and usability techniques? It's not rockets
> science, although developing an e-commerce site on this scale would
> certainly have its challenges.
>
> I don't know what the experience of shopping in an actual store is
> like for any of these retailers, it's not something I've summoned up the
> strength to try when I'm on my own, although the staff in our local
> Sainsbury's and Tesco are usually very helpful in any case.
>
>
> IF as you say though, help on the ground is something of a lottery,
> then yes, we should definitely be pushing for greater support. Online =
> =3D =3D3D
> =3D3D3D and offline in fact. The curious thing is that all of the big =
> three
> seem =3D to =3D3D =3D3D3D be trying.
>
> It's possible they think they're doing enough. It's possible they're
> getting lousy advice from whoever operates as their =3D3D3D
> accessibility/usability knowledge base, it's possible that they simply
> aren't aware of the improvements that could be made.
>
> From our point of view, I suspect it's back to the grindstone.
> Contacting our preferred retailer to provide feedback, good or bad, =3D =
> =3D3D3D
> =3D3D advice and suggestions. If we know something isn't working but =
> don't say
> =3D =3D3D3D anything, the chances no-one will ever know.
>
> I know Tesco carry out user testing before they launch anything
> significant, which is good to know and they seem fairly receptive to
> comments and feedback from the public. Asda customer services don't =3D =
> =3D3D3D
> =3D3D appear to know much about the web, so I'm not sure how to send =
> feedback
> =3D to the right ears. Sainsburys are also receptive, but again it's =
> hard to =3D
> know =3D3D =3D3D3D if the message is reaching the right ears. In all =
> cases, I
> suspect =3D if there were enough feedback on the same topic, it would
> eventually reach =3D the =3D3D =3D3D3D right people.
>
> It's a tricky one all round and this has been quite a long enough
> email... That's the trouble with the vino I expect.
>
> Regard
> L=3D3D3DE9onie.
> =3D3D3D20
> =3D3D3D20
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D Of Ray's Home
> Sent: 13 January 2007 07:24
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Asda online.
>
> Well L3o9ie all sounds very civilized ordering to the accompaniment of =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D El Vino, but does that lead to mistakes being made? I =
> imbibe =3D
> sometimes =3D3D3D =3D3D after the shopping, though I wouldn't go as far =
> as to
> say it =3D drives me to =3D3D3D =3D3D drink.
>
> On a more serious, and on topic note, wouldn't you say that, given the
> hassle most feel about going to a super market, wouldn't that be a good =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D part of a strategy for campaigners to target large =
> retailers such
> =3D as =3D3D these to take internet access seriously? Given that staff =
> help on
> the ground =3D3D is something of a lottery and also now the drive to =
> automate
> =3D the check out process in super markets, also, some are going to be =
> driven
> =3D more and =3D3D3D =3D3D more to go the on-line route. All very fine, =
> but all
> too =3D often we're face =3D3D with =3D3D3D what amounts to a 'no entry' =
> sign for
> anyone =3D with problems, be it =3D3D physical or electronic access.
>
> Maybe time to reach for the vino again. By the way, the Saver Centre,
> otherwise known as Sainsburys, even managed to beat Tesco in the vino
> colapso league with, a bottle selling for =3D3D3DA32.10 as opposed to =
> =3D around
> =3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3DA32.90 at Tesco. Okay, an uneducated pallet mine =
> might be, =3D
> but a few bottles =3D3D3D of those can make for a happy week end.
>
>
>
> From Ray
> I can be contacted off-list at:
> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D Of L=3D3D3DE9onie Watson
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I must admit the thought of going to a supermarket doesn't appeal to
> me. I'm quite happy shopping with Sainsburys or Tesco, both have their =
> =3D =3D3D
> =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D pros and cons. I like doing my shopping with a glass =
> of vino
> in =3D hand, =3D3D =3D3D3D seems =3D3D3D3D much more civilized somehow!
>
> I'm never going to live down the L3o9ie thing am I? *Smile. Tink was
> so much easier, but I kept getting too close to signing work emails with =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D my nick, so figured better safe than sorry and =
> to hell =3D
> with some =3D3D =3D3D3D3D applications not liking the accent.
>
>
> Regards,
> L=3D3D3D3DE9onie.=3D3D3D3D20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D Of Ray's Home
> Sent: 12 January 2007 00:18
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Asda online.
>
> Must say , Graham's comment obliges me to say that I have never seen
> L=3D3D3D3D3DE9onie as we must call her now, as an ASDA customer!
>
> I love fish fingers, and bought some ata similar price at Saver Centre =
> =3D =3D3D
> =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D in Oldbury. Doubt that much fish, if any found its =
> way into =3D
> them! =3D3D Point =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D of saying all this?
>
> Try and live very neara supermarket, as I do. You aren't much tempted =
> =3D =3D3D
> =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D to get into all the tech access issues that keep =
> coming up
> here.
> Maybe =3D3D =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D some physical access issues but that's =
> maybe OT =3D
> on this list.
>
> From Ray
> I can be contacted off-list at:
> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D Of Graham Page
> Sent: 11 January 2007 11:12PM
>
> Hi Leoni. I live in East London. I am actually within the E1 boundary =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D yet Asda do not deliver there either. Oh How =
> i'd love to
> =3D be able =3D3D to =3D3D3D gorge myself on smart price fish fingers, =
> bought on
> line =3D for 18 pence =3D3D for =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D 10!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "L=3D3D3D3DE9onie Watson" <tink@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:10 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Asda online.
>
>
> Graham and all,
>
> Thanks for your responses. Until recently, I too wasn't in an area that =
> =3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D Asda delivered to. Considering I live in a city, =
> only a =3D
> couple of =3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D miles =3D3D3D3D from a large Asda, =
> this has
> always =3D struck me as strange, =3D3D but that's =3D3D3D not =
> =3D3D3D3D3D why
> =3D3D3D3D I sent the =3D email.
>
> I was disappointed to find the Asda site much more difficult to use than
> either Tesco or Sainsbury. No headings or lists that I could find, =3D =
> =3D3D3D3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D missing alt text in some awkward places, too much =
> JavaScript all =3D
> over =3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D the =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D place and the most =
> ridiculous chicken =3D
> counter I've ever =3D3D come across.
>
> OK, so the last one has nothing to do with accessibility or usability, =
> =3D =3D3D
> =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D but am I the only one that finds the following =
> completely =3D
> =3D3D3D3D3D daft?
>
> You can choose from a selection of chickens weighing in at around 1.2k
> through 1.5k, but nothing bigger. Given Asda is a family =3D3D3D3D3D =3D =
> =3D3D3D3D
> =3D3D =3D3D3D supermarket, this is strange in itself, but it gets worse.
>
> There are a couple of chickens which you can buy on a per kilo basis. =
> =3D =3D3D
> =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D The price per kilo is given, but there is no way to =
> choose the
> =3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D weight =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D you'd like.
>
> I spoke with customer services, who shrugged and said, well "you just =
> =3D =3D3D
> =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D buy the chicken". I asked how I would know what size =
> chicken
> I'd =3D be =3D3D getting =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D or what price I'd be charged =
> and there
> was a long =3D pause and =3D3D then =3D3D3D3D3D the =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =
> person
> eventually said, "I have =3D no idea, I can't help you =3D3D out on this =
> =3D3D3D
> =3D3D3D3D3D one"..
>
> Maybe I was unlucky, maybe I am missing something, but either way, I'm =
> =3D =3D3D
> =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D back to Sainsburys in a hurry I think.
>
>
> Regards,
> L=3D3D3D3D3DE9onie.
>
>
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