Roger,
Those are really good points. As for those codes, yes, I've come across them,
but only when someone ordered something for me on their computer or phone,
rather than using my computer.
But when you think about it, what you're describing is people being bullied
into buying expensive technology that they could do without by a merciless
economic system. Perhaps at some point you'll have to succumb, but I'd
certainly resist as long as possible.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
(Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 2:33 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Phone ideas?
Of course, if a web site just asks for your mobile number and you write none -
or in my case I just leave it blank - there will be no negative results. But
when a web site asks for your mobile number so that they can send you a code by
means of texting it and then ask that you enter the code before proceeding then
that is a different matter. Is it negative results? You might call it no
results at all. Without going into the details of what the site was all about,
that happened to me just recently. It didn't even offer any other form of
identity verification. So I finally emailed my acquaintance with the iPhone and
asked her if I could enter her phone number and if she could then email me the
code that she would get. I told her that this would not work unless she was
available right then that moment. Fortunately she was and I was able to
continue. But these kinds of identity verification processes are becoming more
and more common. The people who set up the web sites just assume that everyone
has a mobile phone that will receive text messages and apparently do not even
think of offering alternatives.
As time goes on this is going to make functioning more and more difficult. And
not just any cell phone will do either. You mentioned the Jitterbug, for
example. Well, as I recall, the only thing it will do is to let you make and
receive old fashioned telephone calls. It does not have text messaging. Even if
it did, for a blind user to use that function it would have to have a built in
voice to read the text to you.
I can just see that in the not to distant future there might be brick and
mortar stores that will accept payment only through an app on a phone. In fact,
I have never encountered this myself, but I have heard of stores that no longer
accept cash. At minimum you have to have a debit or credit card to shop there.
Why would they do that? Simply that it is easier for them and that credit and
debit cards are so common now that they can afford to do so. It also protects
them from robbery. Why would a robber even try to knock over a store that had
absolutely zero cash on hand? But having to keep up with technology to function
is nothing new. Just look at the disadvantage the Amish put themselves to by
eschewing automobiles in favor of horses and buggies. But at least they live in
rather insular communities where they don't have to deal with that many people
who are not also Amish. If they did not have that community of similar thinking
people and had to function individually then could they function at all? I
don't think they would make it very far if they did not start using some recent
technology. So I am comfortable with my land line phone. I am comfortable with
it because that is what I have always used. But eventually I will have to
switch to something else whether I am comfortable with it or not and whether it
is more expensive than I would like or not. I am already feeling the effects of
not having done so yet. Then there is this to consider. Just how long will it
be before the phone company stops offering land line service? There will come a
time that there will not be enough customers using land lines to make it worth
it to the phone company to continue to maintain all their lines. And with the
masses of people who have already given up land lines that time may be closer
than one would expect.
___
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at through disbelief
and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing something were so! Your
patient's wish to be in God's hands is not truth. It is simply a child's
wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not to die, a wish for the eveastingly
bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'! Evolutionary theory scientifically
demonstrates God's redundancy—though Darwin himself had not the courage to
follow his evidence to its true conclusion. Surely, you must realize that we
created God, and that all of us together now have killed him.” ― Irvin D.
Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept On 6/17/2021 9:55 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Roger,
I find that on many websites, they ask for a mobile phone number. I write,
"none", and there's no negative result. Second, if there is a way to shop
from home with a mobile phone, then there's a way to shop from home with your
computer. If you need to go to the store to shop, I'd question how easy it
would be for a blind person to walk through that store independently,
pointing one's phone at stuff. And the last thing I'd mention is that I have
a son-in-law who attempted for years to use the same smart phone rather than
upgrading because he hated to spend the money for a new phone. He has the
money, but that's not what he's willing to spend it for. That didn't work out
well at all. True, it wasn't an I phone but the principle is the same. When
it died, he lost all his data.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
(Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:40 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Phone ideas?
Thank you for the information. I might fit one of those qualifications, but I
doubt that it applies in West Virginia. Nevertheless, my contemplation about
what kind of phone to get has reverted to very slow again. The urgency was
quashed. I found out that the problem with my land line phone was that the
plug that went into the wall socket for electricity was loose. A good hard
push repaired it. I still think that the world has moved on to the point that
to fully function I need some kind of mobile phone and a smart phone would be
best. I described that company that provides one with a sighted agent to
describe things for one thing, but it would also be really convenient to make
purchases just by pointing the phone at something that will deduct the price
from my account. For that matter, I have signed up for Wallmart + because
that is the cheapest way I know of to get grocery delivery, but with a smart
phone with their app on it I could just walk through the store picking up
items and scanning them and walk out of the store without bothering with the
checkout aisle. But right now the urgency is gone. With my land line phone
working again I can relax and slowly contemplate what I will do about phone
service in the future. If I keep running into web sites that just assume that
everyone has a mobile phone and won't let me use it unless I can give them a
mobile number that future might come sooner than I would like.
___
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at through disbelief
and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing something were so! Your
patient's wish to be in God's hands is not truth. It is simply a child's
wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not to die, a wish for the eveastingly
bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'! Evolutionary theory scientifically
demonstrates God's redundancy—though Darwin himself had not the courage to
follow his evidence to its true conclusion. Surely, you must realize that we
created God, and that all of us together now have killed him.” ― Irvin D.
Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept On 6/16/2021 5:58 PM, Frank Ventura wrote:
Hi Roger, I apologize that I took so long to get back to you. I have been
overwhelmed at work and am working on about 3 hours per day of sleep. The
gestures you will need to learn for the basics are:
Swiping, which is moving your fingers horizontally left to right or
right to left Flicking which is moving your fingers up or down
Tapping which is as the name implies tapping your fingers on the
screen The good news is that the gestures are the same throughout the system
no matter what application you are in. I don't know what resources are
available to you there in West Virginia. Here in Massachusetts you can get
an iPhone for free if you fall into one of the following categories:
Have an open VR case (working, in school or seeking employment) Are
retired, over age 55 and are below 3x poverty level for income.
Are registered with the commission for the blind as being
multiple-handicapped (deaf-blind for example) Even if you purchase the phone
yourself the commission for the bind will provide training for anyone who
requests it. If you are over 55 and are income eligible the MassEDP program
will even pay for the cell service. I can't take advantage of it myself
since blind employees of the commission for the blind are banned from taking
part in any publicly funded services. Assuming there is nothing similar
where you live you can get relatively low cost refurbished iPhones on Amazon.
Here is an example:
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-GSM-Unlocked-64GB/dp/B0775MV9K2/r
e
f=mp_s_a_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=renewed+iphone&qid=1623880598&sr=8-4
There are many tutorials online such as:
http://applevis.com
I am not encouraging you to get involved in the organized blind movement but
look for groups of blind folks in your area who may be willing to sit with
you for a few hours and show things to you.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 11:33 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Phone ideas?
If there was any justice one would expect that if your employer mandates
that you use it then your employer should pay for it. Your comment that it
is easy to use is encouraging, but can you say anything about the blind
experience of using that touch screen? Are the gestures only a few that are
repeated from app to app or do you have to memorize a lot of them? I really
would like to have an iPhone, but the price tag and that touch screen kind
of makes me wary.
___
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at through
disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing something were so!
Your patient's wish to be in God's hands is not truth. It is simply a
child's wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not to die, a wish for the
eveastingly bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'! Evolutionary theory
scientifically demonstrates God's redundancy—though Darwin himself had not
the courage to follow his evidence to its true conclusion. Surely, you must
realize that we created God, and that all of us together now have killed
him.” ― Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept On 6/11/2021 10:13 PM, Frank
Ventura wrote:
Roger, I use an Apple iPhone. It cost me a ton of money, about 5 times what
I paid for my first car and the reason I chose it is that my employer
mandates that we all have one. It is easy to use but the product lifecycle
is only a few years.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 9:39 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Phone ideas?
I have a question. Maybe I should say questions plural. On a list where
people think that fifty-two-year-old music recordings are something new
this might not be the best place to ask, but I am not subscribed to any
lists right now where this would be on topic. So since nothing is off topic
here I thought I would at least start here. My land line phone is acting
up. Right now I am lucky if I get a dial tone instead of some kind of
mysterious beeping and incoming calls are being cut off before I can
answer. I have called the phone company to fix it now twice and both times
it started acting up soon afterwards. So I am thinking that the problem
might be in the physical phone rather than the line. That would call for
buying a new phone. If I buy a new phone I am thinking that it might be
about time for me to get myself into the twenty-first century like everyone
else and give up my land line for a cell phone as my only phone. But if I
do that I am going into it blind in more ways than just that my eyes don't
work. I have been wanting a smart phone for a long time because I am
fascinated by the many and varied cool things that one can do with them,
but they are expensive and I don't trust myself to be able to learn using a
touch screen very well. I always have been a lot better at learning things
that you know than I have been at learning things you do. That is why I
used to be able to take a lab and lecture
course and ace the lecture and nearly flunk the lab. I know that
there are a lot of choices that are not smart phones too and some that
actually have buttons. I think I could get along much better with buttons.
But I don't know a lot about all the choices that are available and which
work better for a blind person. Most of the people I know are so sight
oriented that they can't imagine a blind person working any device. So does
anyone on this list have any advice? Do any of you use a cell phone
yourselves? If so, can you say something about why it was a good choice for
you and how much it costs and anything else you might have to say about it?
___
--
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at through
disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing something
were so! Your patient's wish to be in God's hands is not truth. It
is simply a child's wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not to die,
a wish for the eveastingly bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'!
Evolutionary theory scientifically demonstrates God's
redundancy—though Darwin himself had not the courage to follow his
evidence to its true conclusion. Surely, you must realize that we
created God, and that all of us together now have killed him.” ―
Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept