Roger, very good point.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 8:45 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Bob Evans <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Sunday
Ah, Mustafa, are you converting to an agnostic? If we have to wait to die to
find out then you are apparently saying that before we die we do not know one
way or another. If you are now an agnostic then I challenge you on the agnostic
assumption that the demand for proof of a negative is just as valid as the
demand of proof of a positive. If that is the case then any time a crime is
committed you could be charged with it.
Then as you are led off in chains you would probably insist that no one has
proven that you did it. What will your reaction be when they tell you that you
have to prove that you didn't do it?
On 8/14/2017 12:10 PM, Bob Evans wrote:
I am sorry for the filth Joe posted to this list.
As for the existence of a deity, we just have to die to find out.
Let us suspend arguing until we wait and see.
On 8/14/17, Carl Jarvis <carjar82@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Joe,
In my opinion you are far too hard on Mostafa(Bob). First, he is one
of millions who believe as he does, that our lives are directed by
some invisible Great Creator. Second, even if he were an
infiltrator, he would have to shoulder his way through a huge crowd
of local misguided Zombies.
Finally, I place the root of the misguided belief on the heads of
those using God/Allah to keep the Masses under their tight control.
We might not go to nuclear war for Donald Trump, but for God Almighty?
You bet! It's hard to believe that we are now looking at two major
camps, one with an invisible God at the fore, and the other with an
invisible Allah waving the banner. Really? Are we willing to die
supporting some invisible Being, especially since Believers proclaim
that their invisible Being can smite us all dead with one wave of His
invisible hand.
The bad news, among all the bad news, is that all of us, every single
Human Being has been damaged by all of this gobbledygook. There may
be a sane person among us, but who could be the one to know?
Carl Jarvis
On 8/14/17, joe harcz Comcast <joeharcz@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ok, before I go let me say this, "Allah and for that matter, god is
a Disney ride put forward by clowns who drank from a secret tea cup
full of LSD or similar drugs".
Allah, and Jesus and all of those bogus entities are fairy tales put
forth to make bullshit artists like Mustafa who isn't even half
lucid, but who is clearly a troll and likely an agent provocateur in
to our midst.
Allah, and Jesus and other entities divined are used to keep us all down.
They don't wish for us to eat from the tree of knowledge or even
humanly divined, so-to-speak, logic. They want us to be sheep for the
slaughter..
They want us to "believe" in their deities so they can control us.
It is all about control over bodies and minds and projections of
that control when we scramble to figure the bull shit out.
My mother whom I carried to the bathroom and whom I took care of
until and up to her last breath is dead. Her memory is all that
exists.
She is dead and buried in the ground. She by the way was a "true
believer".
I'm sorry but I cannot express the contempt I feel right now for the
likes of the infamous Mustafa/Bob.
For he is again a troll, a sock puppet and a mean person. And
bullies need to be confronted and truth needs to be told.
And I need to be off this freaking list for my own sanity and to get
away from creeps like Mustafa as sick asthese types are.
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Bob
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 3:12 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Sunday
Okay, I'll give you a rational answer. The problem with allah
doing what you point to is that allah is not omnipotent. Allah is
only a fairy tale character. What makes this rational is that to
believe in the reality of fairy tale characters is irrational. Now,
speaking of rationality and logic, I have been meaning to respond to
an earlier message from you. At the time I had concentrated on
another part of your message and did not get around to this part of
it. You said that the existence of a deity is logical because
everything that exists must have a creator. Let's stop a moment to
look at what logic is. Logic is an information processing algorithm.
One takes two or more pieces of information and process them with
logic and one gets another piece of information that had not been
there before. With that in mind let's look at the syllogism you were
implying. Everything that exists must have a creator. The universe
exists. Therefor the universe has a creator. That is the simplest of
syllogisms in formal logic. It is flawlessly logical. However, the
logical algorithm works just as well with false information as it
does with correct information. I strongly suspect that your first
premise is false information. That is the premise that everything
that exists must have a creator. How do you know that is true?
I
suppose that you might come up with another syllogism to arrive at
that premise, but then I would have to question the premises in the
second syllogism. Ultimately, no matter how logical your argument it
is necessary to provide some evidence for the premises. So how do
you know that everything that exists must have a creator. Please
provide an answer that has something to do with it being true. If
you cannot come up with a reason to believe it then your claim has
as much validity as the claim that a paisley unicorn is orbiting
Jupiter in a tea cup.
On 8/13/2017 12:58 AM, Bob wrote:
Hello, on each Sunday morning, fellow Congregationalists gather
to worship. In the Koran, there is a chapter called chapter of Mary.
It is numbered the nineteenth in a typical Koranic index. At its
inception, allah mentions when prophet Zechariah peace be upon him
desperately implored to his Lord in seclusion. He said, my Lord, my
bones have become feeble and my head has flamed with grey hair, and
my Lord, I have been never disappointed with my prayer to you. And,
I have been frightened with the dependants after me and my spouse
has been barren, so grant me with you a grace an heir.
Shall he inherit me and inherit from the house of Jacob, and make
him my Lord pleasing. Oh Zechariah, we give you the glad tidings of
a boy named John, a name We have never been given before. He said,
my Lord, how can I have a son, when my spouse is barren, and I have
become decrepit with old age. He said, It will be so, your Lord
says, it is easy for me, and I created you before, when you were
nothing. He said, my Lord, give me a sign, he said, your sign that
you shall not speak to people for three nights consecutively. And he
came out to his people from the sanctuary and signaled to them,
glorify in the morning and evening. Oh John, hold the scripture
firmly and We gave him wisdom in his youth. And tenderness from Us,
and innocence. He was devout. And he was dutiful to his parents, and
he was not disobedient, tyrant. And peace be upon him the day he was
born, the day he dies and the day he is raised alive. And mention in
the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew from her people to an eastern
place. She screened herself away from them, and We sent to her Our
spirit, and He appeared to her as an immaculate human. She said, I
take refuge from you to the Most Merciful, should you be righteous.
He said, I am only the messenger of your Lord, to give you the gift
of a pure son. She said, how can I have a son when no man has
touched me and I was never unchaste. He said, thus said your Lord,
It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign for humanity, and a
mercy from Us.
The matter was predetermined. So she carried him, and secluded
herself with him in a remote place. Labor pains came upon her by
the trunk of a palmtree. She said, I wish I had died before this and
been completely forgotten. Whereupon he called her from beneath her,
shall not you grieve, your Lord has placed a stream beneath you. And
shake the trunk of the palmtree towards you and it will drop on you
edible dates. So eat, drink and be consoled. If you see any human,
say, I have vowed a fast to the Most Gracious, so I will not speak
to any human today. Then she came to her people carrying him, they
said, oh Mary, you truly have done something terrible. Oh sister of
Aaron, your father was not wicked nor your mother was unchaste. So
she pointed to him, they said, how can we speak to an infant in the
crib. He said, I indeed am the servant of Allah, He has given me the
scripture and made me a prophet. And has made me blessed wherever I
may be, and has enjoined on me prayer and charity, so long as I
live. And deutiful to my mother, and hasn’t made me disobedient,
rebel. So Peace is upon me the day I was born, and the day I die,
and the Day I get resurrected alive.
This
is indeed Jesus son of Mary, the sentiment of truth upon which they
tend to dispute. Truly, Allah is my and your Lord, so worship Him.
This is basically the straight path. The Koran then says, and
factions have dissented from among them, so woe to those who
disbelieved from the scene of a great day.
Each and every denomination has its rendition of who Jesus was.
However, Islam presents to the sincere seeker a plain portrait of
his genuine account. I am not destined to relentlessly argue. Each
and every individual is perfectly autonomous. I am not urging the
provoke of a uselessly theological debate. I am just presenting,
without stereotypic notion, the Islamic version of the Nativity
tale. There are major factors to consider.
First, the Islamic story demonstrates in clear terms, Allah’s
illimitable measurelessly Omnipotence. Second, it enormously honours
both Zechariah and John whom Christians call the Baptist as equally,
notable prophets.
Third,
it plainly honours Mary and it righteously recognises her
unparalleled celibacy. Fourth, it recognises the Nativity tale while
scrupulously maintaining plain monotheism, exalting the divine from bearing
a son.
Fifth
and ultimately, it emphatically exonerates virtuous Mary from the
intolerable allegation Jews wrongfully impeached her with. I urge
the recipient of this post to carefully ponder, I do not urge you to hasten.
I
am a caller to Islam. I at the end, want to ask you one simple question.
This question demands a clear and a straightforward answer. If Allah
is providentially Omnipotent, what is the problem with Him
procreating offspring from a decrepitly aged man and a barren
woman? Similarly, if Allah’s Omnipotence is measureless, what is
the problem with Him procreating offspring from a virgin, and
without any masculine intervention? I believe that this question is
rationally valid and it therefore demands a logical answer. I again,
do not hasten anyone to instantly respond. I just am urging you to
think properly. Here is Bob greeting you, peace, blessings and much respect
from me.
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