It is a bit more than that. A troll is not just one who tries to evoke
an emotional response. It is one who tries to evoke an emotional
response with the intent to disrupt. Whether Mustafa intends to disrupt
or not he is effectively a troll. As for this list, Joe was recently
saying something about his having been on the list from its inception
and what it had been set up for at that time. By the time I subscribed
that original purpose had long since been abandoned and it was more of a
say anything list that was limited only by the proclivities of its
participants. Clearly the proclivities of the participants made it
mainly a political discussion group. When the hosting web site fell
apart after the death of its maintainer I set up this replacement with a
description that more closely matched what it had become. That is, I
said in the description that one could say anything, but that the most
frequent topic of discussion is politics. Well, if one can say anything
I suppose that means that trolls are allowed. Bombarding the list with
messages that upset people and are not of interest to most participants
makes one a troll. His most trollish behavior, though, does not
necessarily relate directly to this list. Mustafa has long been not just
a troll, but a trawler too. That is, he subscribes to lists collecting
email addresses where he can and putting them on his personal mailing
list and then bombards those people with unwelcome messages. It is a
form of spamming. I cannot blame people for getting upset about that.
Then when they ask to be removed he refuses to remove them. That rather
upsets people too. That is, he holds people hostage while trolling them.
None of that behavior applies to anyone on this list other than Mustafa.
On 8/14/2017 9:18 PM, Frank Ventura wrote:
Roger, from my understanding, in the context of the internet, a troll is
someone that speaks with the intent of eliciting an emotional response. Given
the topics we discuss here we all fit that bill.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 8:38 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Carl Jarvis <carjar82@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Sunday
I think it is hard, though, to argue that in Internet parlance that Mustafa is
not a troll.
On 8/14/2017 10:29 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Joe,
In my opinion you are far too hard on Mostafa(Bob). First, he is one
of millions who believe as he does, that our lives are directed by
some invisible Great Creator. Second, even if he were an infiltrator,
he would have to shoulder his way through a huge crowd of local
misguided Zombies.
Finally, I place the root of the misguided belief on the heads of
those using God/Allah to keep the Masses under their tight control.
We might not go to nuclear war for Donald Trump, but for God Almighty?
You bet! It's hard to believe that we are now looking at two major
camps, one with an invisible God at the fore, and the other with an
invisible Allah waving the banner. Really? Are we willing to die
supporting some invisible Being, especially since Believers proclaim
that their invisible Being can smite us all dead with one wave of His
invisible hand.
The bad news, among all the bad news, is that all of us, every single
Human Being has been damaged by all of this gobbledygook. There may
be a sane person among us, but who could be the one to know?
Carl Jarvis
On 8/14/17, joe harcz Comcast <joeharcz@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ok, before I go let me say this, "Allah and for that matter, god is a
Disney ride put forward by clowns who drank from a secret tea cup
full of LSD or similar drugs".
Allah, and Jesus and all of those bogus entities are fairy tales put
forth to make bullshit artists like Mustafa who isn't even half
lucid, but who is clearly a troll and likely an agent provocateur in to our
midst.
Allah, and Jesus and other entities divined are used to keep us all down.
They don't wish for us to eat from the tree of knowledge or even
humanly divined, so-to-speak, logic. They want us to be sheep for the
slaughter..
They want us to "believe" in their deities so they can control us. It
is all about control over bodies and minds and projections of that
control when we scramble to figure the bull shit out.
My mother whom I carried to the bathroom and whom I took care of
until and up to her last breath is dead. Her memory is all that exists.
She is dead and buried in the ground. She by the way was a "true believer".
I'm sorry but I cannot express the contempt I feel right now for the
likes of the infamous Mustafa/Bob.
For he is again a troll, a sock puppet and a mean person. And bullies
need to be confronted and truth needs to be told.
And I need to be off this freaking list for my own sanity and to get
away from creeps like Mustafa as sick asthese types are.
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Bob
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 3:12 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Sunday
Okay, I'll give you a rational answer. The problem with allah
doing what you point to is that allah is not omnipotent. Allah is
only a fairy tale character. What makes this rational is that to
believe in the reality of fairy tale characters is irrational. Now,
speaking of rationality and logic, I have been meaning to respond to
an earlier message from you. At the time I had concentrated on
another part of your message and did not get around to this part of
it. You said that the existence of a deity is logical because
everything that exists must have a creator. Let's stop a moment to
look at what logic is. Logic is an information processing algorithm.
One takes two or more pieces of information and process them with
logic and one gets another piece of information that had not been
there before. With that in mind let's look at the syllogism you were
implying. Everything that exists must have a creator. The universe
exists. Therefor the universe has a creator. That is the simplest of
syllogisms in formal logic. It is flawlessly logical. However, the
logical algorithm works just as well with false information as it
does with correct information. I strongly suspect that your first
premise is false information. That is the premise that everything
that exists must have a creator. How do you know that is true? I
suppose that you might come up with another syllogism to arrive at
that premise, but then I would have to question the premises in the
second syllogism. Ultimately, no matter how logical your argument it
is necessary to provide some evidence for the premises. So how do you
know that everything that exists must have a creator. Please provide
an answer that has something to do with it being true. If you cannot come up
with a reason to believe it then your claim has as much validity as the claim
that a paisley unicorn is orbiting Jupiter in a tea cup.
On 8/13/2017 12:58 AM, Bob wrote:
Hello, on each Sunday morning, fellow Congregationalists gather
to worship. In the Koran, there is a chapter called chapter of Mary.
It is numbered the nineteenth in a typical Koranic index. At its
inception, allah mentions when prophet Zechariah peace be upon him
desperately implored to his Lord in seclusion. He said, my Lord, my
bones have become feeble and my head has flamed with grey hair, and
my Lord, I have been never disappointed with my prayer to you. And,
I have been frightened with the dependants after me and my spouse has been
barren, so grant me with you a grace an heir.
Shall he inherit me and inherit from the house of Jacob, and make him
my Lord pleasing. Oh Zechariah, we give you the glad tidings of a boy
named John, a name We have never been given before. He said, my Lord,
how can I have a son, when my spouse is barren, and I have become
decrepit with old age. He said, It will be so, your Lord says, it is
easy for me, and I created you before, when you were nothing. He
said, my Lord, give me a sign, he said, your sign that you shall not
speak to people for three nights consecutively. And he came out to
his people from the sanctuary and signaled to them, glorify in the
morning and evening. Oh John, hold the scripture firmly and We gave
him wisdom in his youth. And tenderness from Us, and innocence. He
was devout. And he was dutiful to his parents, and he was not
disobedient, tyrant. And peace be upon him the day he was born, the
day he dies and the day he is raised alive. And mention in the
Scripture Mary, when she withdrew from her people to an eastern
place. She screened herself away from them, and We sent to her Our
spirit, and He appeared to her as an immaculate human. She said, I
take refuge from you to the Most Merciful, should you be righteous.
He said, I am only the messenger of your Lord, to give you the gift
of a pure son. She said, how can I have a son when no man has touched me and I
was never unchaste. He said, thus said your Lord, It is easy for Me, and We
will make him a sign for humanity, and a mercy from Us.
The matter was predetermined. So she carried him, and secluded
herself with him in a remote place. Labor pains came upon her by the
trunk of a palmtree. She said, I wish I had died before this and been
completely forgotten. Whereupon he called her from beneath her, shall
not you grieve, your Lord has placed a stream beneath you. And shake
the trunk of the palmtree towards you and it will drop on you edible
dates. So eat, drink and be consoled. If you see any human, say, I
have vowed a fast to the Most Gracious, so I will not speak to any
human today. Then she came to her people carrying him, they said, oh
Mary, you truly have done something terrible. Oh sister of Aaron,
your father was not wicked nor your mother was unchaste. So she
pointed to him, they said, how can we speak to an infant in the crib.
He said, I indeed am the servant of Allah, He has given me the
scripture and made me a prophet. And has made me blessed wherever I
may be, and has enjoined on me prayer and charity, so long as I live.
And deutiful to my mother, and hasn’t made me disobedient, rebel. So
Peace is upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the Day I
get resurrected alive. This is indeed Jesus son of Mary, the
sentiment of truth upon which they tend to dispute. Truly, Allah is
my and your Lord, so worship Him. This is basically the straight path. The
Koran then says, and factions have dissented from among them, so woe to those
who disbelieved from the scene of a great day.
Each and every denomination has its rendition of who Jesus was.
However, Islam presents to the sincere seeker a plain portrait of his
genuine account. I am not destined to relentlessly argue. Each and
every individual is perfectly autonomous. I am not urging the provoke
of a uselessly theological debate. I am just presenting, without
stereotypic notion, the Islamic version of the Nativity tale. There are major
factors to consider.
First, the Islamic story demonstrates in clear terms, Allah’s
illimitable measurelessly Omnipotence. Second, it enormously honours
both Zechariah and John whom Christians call the Baptist as equally,
notable prophets. Third, it plainly honours Mary and it righteously
recognises her unparalleled celibacy. Fourth, it recognises the
Nativity tale while scrupulously maintaining plain monotheism,
exalting the divine from bearing a son. Fifth and ultimately, it
emphatically exonerates virtuous Mary from the intolerable allegation
Jews wrongfully impeached her with. I urge the recipient of this post
to carefully ponder, I do not urge you to hasten. I am a caller to Islam. I at
the end, want to ask you one simple question.
This question demands a clear and a straightforward answer. If Allah
is providentially Omnipotent, what is the problem with Him
procreating offspring from a decrepitly aged man and a barren woman?
Similarly, if Allah’s Omnipotence is measureless, what is the
problem with Him procreating offspring from a virgin, and without
any masculine intervention? I believe that this question is
rationally valid and it therefore demands a logical answer. I again,
do not hasten anyone to instantly respond. I just am urging you to
think properly. Here is Bob greeting you, peace, blessings and much respect
from me.
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