[opendtv] Re: Is 'Fair Use' in Peril?
- From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:20:33 -0800
So, is it common for Tivo folks to do this? I can see this being a great
waste of time, since the slack period is just that, slack period, waiting
for enough of the show to get into the file so that you can skip over
commercials. How much do people pay for this "convenience?"
John Willkie
-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Tom Barry
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:56 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: Is 'Fair Use' in Peril?
Jarrett Vance wrote:
> Consider for a second that your a huge fan of CSI. Now sometimes you
> won't be able to watch the show live so you may record it and watch it
> later. Your penalty for not watching the show live is that you really
> wanted to know why Grissom was in jail but you didn't find out as soon
> as you could have. Your reward for not watching the show live is that
> you get no commercial interruptions.
Your analysis makes sense but I'm not sure what you consider "Live".
Many of us Tivo users will delay a show just long enough for some "Tivo
slack". That is maybe 15-20 minutes for a one hour show. Starting from
there we finish the show more or less in real time after skipping
commercials, answering phone calls, poddy breaks, etc.
And I'm not sure many would feel much of a penalty for a declining 20
minute delay except maybe for some very prime sporting events. So it
might be a minimal delay penalty vs full ad skipping benefits. And we
could still talk about Grissom at the water cooler the next day.
- Tom
>>Specifically, I do not feel there is any implied contract by
>>consumers to watch the ads.
>
>
> I agree and believe that despite the capability to all together skip
> or ignore commercials on time shifted programming, OTA and ad-assisted
> programming will survive with good programming that people will want
> to watch live because of the fact that it is entertaining.
>
> Consider for a second that your a huge fan of CSI. Now sometimes you
> won't be able to watch the show live so you may record it and watch it
> later. Your penalty for not watching the show live is that you really
> wanted to know why Grissom was in jail but you didn't find out as soon
> as you could have. Your reward for not watching the show live is that
> you get no commercial interruptions.
>
> If fair use does goto hell and this doesn't work they will probably
> just have Grissom blatently drink Diet Chocolate Cherry flavored Coke
> during every show (have you seen NCIS?).
>
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:33:09 -0500, Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>Manfredi, Albert E wrote:
>>
>>>If OTA and ad-assisted programming is truly on the way
>>>out, I'm sure it will die a natural death. This doesn't
>>>mean that govt should look the other way when folks out
>>>there unfairly help the industry in its demise. The
>>>govt should not be in bed with umbillical service
>>>providers.
>>
>>I guess the operative word here is 'unfairly'. I do not feel the Govt
>>is necessarily in bed with anyone just for failing to pass special
>>interest legislation. And I do not see using technology to fast foward
>>or skip over commercials and less fair than using a spam filter on my
>>email. Specifically, I do not feel there is any implied contract by
>>consumers to watch the ads. I have been skipping over them for years.
>>
>>The fact that a fast (60x) forward command like the Tivo is sufficient
>>for me is not really a reason I'd feel comfortable with legislation
>>saying I cannot legally do anything else. This is especially true when
>>those sorts of efforts seem to come with certification and robustness
>>requirements these days that can be used (like the BF or macrovision) in
>>restraint of trade.
>>
>>- Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Tom Barry wrote:
>>>
>>>I had written:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>If Congress allowed CE manufacturers to completely
>>>>>hide ads, then Congress would be unfairly doing the
>>>>>bidding of the umbillical services companies. Because,
>>>>>of course, advertizers would put less and less money
>>>>>into TV shows as recording devices become more common.
>>>>>Which, for FTA TV especially, would be the kiss of
>>>>>death.
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, but that does not compute. Most anything is
>>>>allowed just by the default action of Congress not
>>>>having done anything about it yet. And rightly so.
>>>
>>>
>>>I agree with the general principle of anything goes
>>>unless forbidden.
>>>
>>>I assume, then, that the CE industry should also be
>>>allowed to market boxes that I can buy openly, allowing
>>>me to receive cable and DBS, including premium programs,
>>>without having to pay the cable and DBS companies?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Now obviously, if Congress were to allow the
>>>>manufacture of automobiles the buggy whip
>>>>manufacturers might suffer a bit.
>>>
>>>
>>>Let's use this example, although analogies don't often
>>>work well.
>>>
>>>We will agree that the buggy whip lost its role in the
>>>marketplace when cars replaced horses and carts. But
>>>does that mean that looting of buggy whip stores should
>>>have been allowed? After all, Craig would say, buggy
>>>whips were on the way out regardless.
>>>
>>>If OTA and ad-assisted programming is truly on the way
>>>out, I'm sure it will die a natural death. This doesn't
>>>mean that govt should look the other way when folks out
>>>there unfairly help the industry in its demise. The
>>>govt should not be in bed with umbillical service
>>>providers.
>>>
>>>Bert
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
>
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