[opendtv] Re: Is 'Fair Use' in Peril?
- From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 23:32:04 -0500
Not uncommon. I just sort of habitually arrive a little late for TV
shows. In the meantime I may read a book or, since my TV is also my web
browser, reply to posts like this one.
I really like the show Lost. But at 8:00 tonight I was still browsing a
forum and put it off for about 1/2 hour. And I remember I paused in
the middle to get up and get another coffee, without waiting for a
commercial. Then I still skipped then next ad. ;-)
- Tom
John Willkie wrote:
> So, is it common for Tivo folks to do this? I can see this being a great
> waste of time, since the slack period is just that, slack period, waiting
> for enough of the show to get into the file so that you can skip over
> commercials. How much do people pay for this "convenience?"
>
> John Willkie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Tom Barry
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:56 PM
> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: Is 'Fair Use' in Peril?
>
>
> Jarrett Vance wrote:
> > Consider for a second that your a huge fan of CSI. Now sometimes you
> > won't be able to watch the show live so you may record it and watch it
> > later. Your penalty for not watching the show live is that you really
> > wanted to know why Grissom was in jail but you didn't find out as soon
> > as you could have. Your reward for not watching the show live is that
> > you get no commercial interruptions.
>
> Your analysis makes sense but I'm not sure what you consider "Live".
> Many of us Tivo users will delay a show just long enough for some "Tivo
> slack". That is maybe 15-20 minutes for a one hour show. Starting from
> there we finish the show more or less in real time after skipping
> commercials, answering phone calls, poddy breaks, etc.
>
> And I'm not sure many would feel much of a penalty for a declining 20
> minute delay except maybe for some very prime sporting events. So it
> might be a minimal delay penalty vs full ad skipping benefits. And we
> could still talk about Grissom at the water cooler the next day.
>
> - Tom
>
>
>>>Specifically, I do not feel there is any implied contract by
>>>consumers to watch the ads.
>>
>>
>>I agree and believe that despite the capability to all together skip
>>or ignore commercials on time shifted programming, OTA and ad-assisted
>>programming will survive with good programming that people will want
>>to watch live because of the fact that it is entertaining.
>>
>>Consider for a second that your a huge fan of CSI. Now sometimes you
>>won't be able to watch the show live so you may record it and watch it
>>later. Your penalty for not watching the show live is that you really
>>wanted to know why Grissom was in jail but you didn't find out as soon
>>as you could have. Your reward for not watching the show live is that
>>you get no commercial interruptions.
>>
>>If fair use does goto hell and this doesn't work they will probably
>>just have Grissom blatently drink Diet Chocolate Cherry flavored Coke
>>during every show (have you seen NCIS?).
>>
>>On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:33:09 -0500, Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Manfredi, Albert E wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>If OTA and ad-assisted programming is truly on the way
>>>>out, I'm sure it will die a natural death. This doesn't
>>>>mean that govt should look the other way when folks out
>>>>there unfairly help the industry in its demise. The
>>>>govt should not be in bed with umbillical service
>>>>providers.
>>>
>>>I guess the operative word here is 'unfairly'. I do not feel the Govt
>>>is necessarily in bed with anyone just for failing to pass special
>>>interest legislation. And I do not see using technology to fast foward
>>>or skip over commercials and less fair than using a spam filter on my
>>>email. Specifically, I do not feel there is any implied contract by
>>>consumers to watch the ads. I have been skipping over them for years.
>>>
>>>The fact that a fast (60x) forward command like the Tivo is sufficient
>>>for me is not really a reason I'd feel comfortable with legislation
>>>saying I cannot legally do anything else. This is especially true when
>>>those sorts of efforts seem to come with certification and robustness
>>>requirements these days that can be used (like the BF or macrovision) in
>>>restraint of trade.
>>>
>>>- Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tom Barry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I had written:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>If Congress allowed CE manufacturers to completely
>>>>>>hide ads, then Congress would be unfairly doing the
>>>>>>bidding of the umbillical services companies. Because,
>>>>>>of course, advertizers would put less and less money
>>>>>>into TV shows as recording devices become more common.
>>>>>>Which, for FTA TV especially, would be the kiss of
>>>>>>death.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, but that does not compute. Most anything is
>>>>>allowed just by the default action of Congress not
>>>>>having done anything about it yet. And rightly so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I agree with the general principle of anything goes
>>>>unless forbidden.
>>>>
>>>>I assume, then, that the CE industry should also be
>>>>allowed to market boxes that I can buy openly, allowing
>>>>me to receive cable and DBS, including premium programs,
>>>>without having to pay the cable and DBS companies?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Now obviously, if Congress were to allow the
>>>>>manufacture of automobiles the buggy whip
>>>>>manufacturers might suffer a bit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Let's use this example, although analogies don't often
>>>>work well.
>>>>
>>>>We will agree that the buggy whip lost its role in the
>>>>marketplace when cars replaced horses and carts. But
>>>>does that mean that looting of buggy whip stores should
>>>>have been allowed? After all, Craig would say, buggy
>>>>whips were on the way out regardless.
>>>>
>>>>If OTA and ad-assisted programming is truly on the way
>>>>out, I'm sure it will die a natural death. This doesn't
>>>>mean that govt should look the other way when folks out
>>>>there unfairly help the industry in its demise. The
>>>>govt should not be in bed with umbillical service
>>>>providers.
>>>>
>>>>Bert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>>>
>>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>
> FreeLists.org
>
>>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>>
>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>
> FreeLists.org
>
>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>
>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>
> FreeLists.org
>
>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
Other related posts: