Actually, I don't see how you could say that the sex is explicit in
Whole Lot of Love. It seems to me to be only implied. But I am inclined
to agree with you about explicit descriptions of sex in books. Well, I
don't agree in the way you express it. I agree in that I can well do
without it. That's because it's boring. There are only so many body
parts that can be rubbed against so many body parts and there are only
so many ways to describe it. After you have read all of those ways to
describe it so many times it just doesn't engender much interest
anymore. Furthermore, I get to thinking what the book would be like
without the explicit description of sex. If the descriptions are only
now and then it doesn't seem to have much effect and I can read those
descriptions without getting too bored even if I don't think they are
necessary. I will admit that sometimes, though, they are important to
the story, but it seems that for the most part they are gratuitous. If
they are a major part of the book then they are most likely to be
majorly gratuitous. In a case like that if the descriptions of sex are
removed there is not much substance left. That shows that the main
purpose of the book in question was to explicitly describe sex. But I am
reminded of something else from when I was in the seventh grade. Or it
may have been the eighth grade. It was some time in junior high school.
I don't now remember how I came into possession of these, but I did
acquire some books that were explicitly written as porn. Among the
students in my school they were called fuck books. The first one I read
with extreme interest. I can even say that it was titillating. The
second one was too, but I started to get tired of it before I finished.
Then I started the third one. Okay, the setting had changed and the
names of the characters had changed, but it was the same old stuff that
the other two had in it and I found it really boring by that time. I had
some more and I may have flipped through them, but I didn't care to read
more. I just passed them all on to someone else who was excited about
reading the forbidden fruit. I never picked up another one until many
years later when I found myself with a job as a clerk in a porn shop.
Most of the porn was in the form of picture books that rested on racks
that lined the wall and that we called magazines even though they were
not periodicals. But in the middle of the floor there was a bin that
contained a pile of those so-called fuck books. I flipped through some
of them and read a few passages, but I quickly saw that it was the same
old stuff and still just as boring. But back to music. Again, I heard
nothing in Whole Lot of Love that I would call explicit description of
sex and I don't think I have heard that in any other song either. There
are a lot of songs out there that imply sex to one degree or another,
but I really don't think I have ever heard one that actually describes
it except, perhaps, some drinking songs sung by complete amateurs while
more than a little drunk. I have never heard it in a commercial
recording though.
___
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at through
disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing something were
so! Your patient's wish to be in God's hands is not truth. It is simply
a child's wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not to die, a wish for the
eveastingly bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'! Evolutionary theory
scientifically demonstrates God's redundancy—though Darwin himself had
not the courage to follow his evidence to its true conclusion. Surely,
you must realize that we created God, and that all of us together now
have killed him.” ― Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept
On 6/7/2021 9:36 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Well first, I think that when your textbook was referring to atonal music, it was talking about classical music, not popular music. For people who enjoy traditional classical music, that atonal classical music is very jarring and it doesn't fulfill the needs that we are accustomed to music fulfilling.
As for the lyrics, and the others which imply explicit sex, I find those kinds of songs to be in bad taste. I don't like novels which describe sex in explicit detail, that go on for paragraph after paragraph. To me, they'repornographic and to me, so are songs like the ones whose lyrics you've provided. I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys the books or the songs, but to me, they're not enjoyable. To me, sex can be wonderful and enjoyable, but it's private. One can allude to it in a book without going into detail, just as one can listen to love songs without lyrics about the physical dynamics of sexual intercourse.
Miriam
*From:* blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of *Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
*Sent:* Monday, June 7, 2021 9:06 PM
*To:* blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [blind-democracy] Re: Carl, a Led Zeppelin song you might like.
I am learning that I really don't like lyrics very much that are out of the context of the song they are from. It seems to change their meaning or robs them of any meaning at all. I also think that a lot of the meaning in the lyrics are contained in the way the singer sings them. In Whole Lot of Love I think the moaning and gasping quality of Robert Plants voice contributes to any meaning the song has. It really does imply some kind of sexual ecstasy. Perhaps what divorcing the lyrics from the song is really doing is just exposing the vacuousness of the songs that are vacuous in the first place. But I went ahead and copied the lyrics for Whole lot of Love. First, though, let me mention this. Back when I was about twelve years old and in the seventh grade I had a music class. The textbook for the class was explaining different kinds of music. It mentioned atonal music. It said that some people claim to like atonal music, but that they were likely not telling the truth. It said that they were most likely trying to set themselves apart or just trying to be different. At that time I had never heard atonal music as far as I knew, but I could not help thinking that the author of that textbook was an arrogant jerk. That is, just because he didn't like something he just declared that anyone who said that they did like it had to be lying. I later found out that the places that I would most likely hear atonal music was the background music for action and thriller movies. Sometimes when there is intense action on the screen they use orchestral atonal music as background to heighten the excitement. I still had not heard atonal music in the context of a piece of music presented as just a piece of music by itself. The first time I ever heard that was in Led Zeppelin's Whole Lot of Love. If you listened to even the first part of it you will know that it is not all atonal, but as the song progresses it fades into atonality. That is the part where Robert Plant, the lead singer, starts with the moans and groans. Again,, I think that is important to determining what the song is really all about. But I found that I did like the atonal part. Just like Dazed and Confused my liking of the song has little to do with the lyrics. It has to do with the sound of the whole song. But I can assure you that even though the atonal part is largely why I like the song it has nothing to do with my trying to set myself apart or trying to be different. I really do like it. Anyway, the point came that I started suspecting that the song was about anal sex. Up to a certain point it didn't have to be. All this stuff about every inch of my love and way deep down inside and so forth could just as well be referring to vaginal sex, but the wording just was not quite the way that vaginal sex would be expected to be described. The clenches, though, was that part right toward the end where the singer says, "I want to be your back door man." Back door is exactly the phrase that commonly describes anal sex. Anyway, even though I think it detracts from whatever meaning the song has here are the lyrics:
You need cooling
Baby I'm not fooling
I'm gonna send ya
Back to schooling
A-way down inside
A-honey you need it
I'm gonna give you my love
I'm gonna give you my love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
You've been learning
Um baby I been learning
All them good times baby, baby
I've been year-yearning
A-way, way down inside
A-honey you need-ah
I'm gonna give you my love, ah
I'm gonna give you my love, ah oh
Whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
You've been cooling
And baby I've been drooling
All the good times, baby
I've been misusing
A-way, way down inside
I'm gonna give ya my love
I'm gonna give ya every inch of my love
I'm gonna give ya my love
Hey!
Alright! Let's go!
Whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Way down inside
Woman, you need, yeah
Love
My, my, my, my
My, my, my, my
Lord
Shake for me girl
I wanna be your backdoor man
Hey, oh, hey, oh
Hey, oh, hey, oh
Ooh
Oh, oh, oh, oh
Cool, my, my baby
A-keep it cooling baby
A-keep it cooling baby
Ah-keep it cooling baby
Ah-keep it cooling baby
Ah-keep it cooling baby
___
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at through disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing something were so! Your patient's wish to be in God's hands is not truth. It is simply a child's wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not to die, a wish for the eveastingly bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'! Evolutionary theory scientifically demonstrates God's redundancy—though Darwin himself had not the courage to follow his evidence to its true conclusion. Surely, you must realize that we created God, and that all of us together now have killed him.” ― Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept
On 6/7/2021 4:23 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Well, if you send the lyrics, I'll hazard an opinion. It's hard to
hear them and I really don't like listening to that kind of music.
I started thinking about the lyrics of the popular songs of the
30's and 40's that I like and no one could ever be confused about
their meaning. "All of Me", "I Walk Alone" (during WW2), or folk
music like, "Kisses Sweeter Than Wine".
Miriam
*From:* Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
<mailto:rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Monday, June 7, 2021 4:09 PM
*To:* Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Carl, a Led Zeppelin song you
might like.
It was just an acquaintance of mine who was giving me a ride. I
happened to mention that my two favorite Led Zeppelin songs were
Dazed and Confused and Whole Lot of Love and he told me that Dazed
and Confused was misogynist. He was male. I had said that I liked
the song for years without ever having paid attention to the
lyrics and I think the same applied to him. He heard that line
about the soul of a woman being created below and jumped to the
conclusion that it was about all women. Then there we were having
an argument, a friendly argument in the car about the song without
either of us knowing very clearly what the lyrics actually were.
But that inspired me to look up the song on You Tube when I got
home and I posted the link to it here to get the opinions of
people on this list. Now that I have read the lyrics completely
through I am even more convinced that I am right. By the way, this
didn't come up, but I also happen to think that other song, Whole
lot of Love is about anal sex. Here is the link to that one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQmmM_qwG4k
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQmmM_qwG4k>
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at
through disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing
something were so! Your patient's wish to be in God's hands is not
truth. It is simply a child's wish—and nothing more! It is a wish
not to die, a wish for the eveastingly bloated nipple we have
labeled 'God'! Evolutionary theory scientifically demonstrates
God's redundancy—though Darwin himself had not the courage to
follow his evidence to its true conclusion. Surely, you must
realize that we created God, and that all of us together now have
killed him.” ― Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept
On 6/7/2021 3:33 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Who told you that it's misogynist? It isn't about all women.
It's a specific situation. Was the person a woman?
Miriam
*From:* blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of
*Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
*Sent:* Monday, June 7, 2021 3:07 PM
*To:* blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [blind-democracy] Re: Carl, a Led Zeppelin song you
might like.
Since Stairway to Heaven came across so entirely different to
me when I heard it without the music and without it being sung
I decided to look up the lyrics to Dazed and Confused too. I
can report that even though it came across entirely
differently without the music and being sung too my
interpretation of it remains the same. It appears to be the
point of view of a man who is being emotionally abused by a
woman and he is so addicted to her that he keeps coming back
for more abuse. And I still don't think it is the least bit
misogynist. But I am still not into poetry and I really prefer
both of these songs as songs rather than as poetry. Here are
the lyrics to Dazed and Confused:
Been dazed and confused
For so long, it's not true
Wanted a woman, never bargained for you
Lotsa people talkin',
Few of them know
Soul of a woman was created below, yeah
You hurt and abuse,
Tellin' all of your lies
Run 'round, sweet baby, lord, how they hypnotize
Sweet little baby, I don't know where you been
Gonna love you, baby, here I come again
Every day I work so hard, bringin' home my hard-earned pay
Try to love you, baby, but you push me away
Don't know where you're goin',
Only know just where you've been
Sweet little baby, I want you again
Ah, ah, ah, ah
(Did you ever look up my woman)
Ah, ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah-ah
Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah, ah
Ahh, ah, ah, ah, ah
Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ahhh, ahh
Oh, yeah, alright, alright
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ah
Ah-ah, ah-ah, ah-ah, ah-ah
Oh, I don't like when you're mystifyin' me
Oh, don't leave me so confused, now
Whoa, baby
Been dazed and confused for so long, it's not true
Wanted a woman, never bargained for you
Take it easy, baby,
Let them say what they will
Tongue wag so much when I send you the bill,
Oh, yeah, alright
___
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at
through disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike
wishing something were so! Your patient's wish to be in God's
hands is not truth. It is simply a child's wish—and nothing
more! It is a wish not to die, a wish for the eveastingly
bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'! Evolutionary theory
scientifically demonstrates God's redundancy—though Darwin
himself had not the courage to follow his evidence to its true
conclusion. Surely, you must realize that we created God, and
that all of us together now have killed him.” ― Irvin D.
Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept
On 6/7/2021 1:02 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Roger,
I listened to the song twice, and I confirmed what I was afraid
has
happened. While I still seem to hear normal conversation, my
hearing
has changed to the point that the music garbles the lyrics. The
only
clear words I got came at the very end, "And she's buying the
stairway
to heaven".
I used to have above average hearing, but in some situations where
multiple sounds mix together, I'm having a difficult time following
one thread. I'll need to find a link that takes me to just the
lyrics
before I can comment on them.
Along with living 86 years comes this darned thing called "The Aging
Process", a nice way of saying that our parts are wearing out. When
we first bought our get away cabin out here in the Wilds of the
Great
Olympic Peninsula in 1987, I could stand on the deck and hear what
sounded like a sizzling. It was very faint, and in the city it was
not even noticeable. Today, some 34 years later, the sizzle has
grown
to the point that it is always noticeable. Many little changes keep
showing up. While we felt that we were forcced to retire a year
earlier than we had planned, I can't imagine that I would be an
encouraging sight to an older, newly blind client watching me hobble
up to their door. Remember, most blind folks have varying degrees
of
useful vision. As my dear old neighbor used to tell me when I
asked
her how she was doing, "My get up and go has got up and went."
Carl Jarvis
On 6/7/21, Carl Jarvis<carjar82@xxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:carjar82@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks for the comments and suggestions, Roger.
I do use You Tube for lots of off-beat music. Paul Robeson for
example. One of my personal human rights heroes, as well as the
greatest baritone ever.
I have a shelf above my computer that holds about 120 CD's.
Most of
them have only been played once. Collecting them over several
years
seemed like a good idea, but playing them while working became
too
distracting. Pulling up You Tube is easier when I take a break
and
relax.
I'll let you know any thoughts next time I listen to Led
Zeppelin and
the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/6/21, Roger Loran Bailey<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl, you really ought to listen to the lyrics. It is
disdainful of the
woman who thinks all that glitters is gold and her temerity
at trying to
buy the stairway to heaven. All of that seems to mesh with
the kind of
things you habitually say. As for buying it, frankly, I
haven't been
willing to actually pay for music since I was a teenager.
Anyway, even
if I did have any lingering lust for paying for music I
don't need to.
Just like I was able to call up this one by typing in a
very few search
terms I can call up pretty much any other piece of music I
might want to
hear. You can too. Just go to You Tube and enter the name
and band name
of your choice and in short order you will be hearing that
big band
music you like. There are other choices too. Even though I
knew about it
I had not really listened to much death metal music until I
downloaded
the Tapin radio software for free. I did a search there and
found
several death metal stations that play around the clock
with no
commercials. I found out that I rather like death metal.
Now I can find
the same stations on my Victor reader. And, oh, I think I
can just about
guarantee that you wouldn't like any examples of death
metal. Led
Zeppelin and Black Sabbath are really tame in comparison.
___
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is arrived at
through
disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike wishing
something were
so! Your patient's wish to be in God's hands is not truth.
It is simply
a child's wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not to die, a
wish for the
eveastingly bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'!
Evolutionary theory
scientifically demonstrates God's redundancy—though Darwin
himself had
not the courage to follow his evidence to its true
conclusion. Surely,
you must realize that we created God, and that all of us
together now
have killed him.” ― Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept
On 6/6/2021 5:23 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
You're right, Roger. While I am not a fan of the lead
singer, the
overall effect is soothing. And they don't become
frantic at the end.
Some groups just can't help themselves. They create a
soothing sound
that flows through my Soul...and suddenly they go
bananas. I have to
admit, I listened to the total effect, not the lyrics.
And the total
effect was fine. So I browsed a number of Led Zeppelin
songs, and
found that I would never pay for any Led Zeppelin
albums.
The problem is within me. I grew up with the Big Band
sound, and went
along with the goosey loosey music of the fifties. I
was moved by
much of the creativeness of the sixties and seventies,
but struggled
with Hip Hop and Grunge. And as far as Rap goes...it
can go. Write
me a short poem telling me your troubles, but please
don't put it to
music and snarl out the lyrics over and over and over...
Actually there is not much music that I don't care for.
I enjoy
Country, especially the older forties and fifties, and
I love
Classical...excluding Chamber Music, and most Jazz
except the stuff
that goes piddling around and wanders off in four
directions at once.
Did I forget Blue Grass? There's just not much I don't
like. But if
it jars my nerves...well that's not music to me.
But thanks for showing me that even a group that I have
avoided, even
they have some redeeming grace.
Carl Jarvis
On 6/5/21, Roger Loran Bailey<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl, okay, you didn't like Dazed and Confused. I
am pretty sure you
probably would not like much else that Led Zeppelin
ever did either.
However, there is one Led Zeppelin song that I
think you just might
like. I said that I had never paid attention to the
words in Dazed and
Confused before, but in this one the words are so
clear and so out
front
that it would be difficult to listen to it without
paying attention to
it. Furthermore I think you just might be in
agreement with the
sentiments expressed in this one. It is certainly
disdainful of greed
and privilege. It is Stairway to Heaven. Let me
know if you do like
this
one from Led
Zeppelin:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkF3oxziUI4 ;
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkF3oxziUI4>
--
Irvin D. Yalom “Truth," Nietzsche continued, "is
arrived at through
disbelief and skepticism, not through a childlike
wishing something
were
so! Your patient's wish to be in God's hands is not
truth. It is simply
a child's wish—and nothing more! It is a wish not
to die, a wish for
the
eveastingly bloated nipple we have labeled 'God'!
Evolutionary theory
scientifically demonstrates God's redundancy—though
Darwin himself had
not the courage to follow his evidence to its true
conclusion. Surely,
you must realize that we created God, and that all
of us together now
have killed him.” ― Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche
Wept