[vicsireland] Re: Javaa Scripts
- From: "Tim Culhane" <tim.culhane@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:20:11 -0000
Hi Flor,
Nice idea, but using braille asumes you have a braille display, and as we
all know, they are prohibitively expensive for most people.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Flor Lynch
Sent: 13 February 2007 17:14
To: vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Javaa Scripts
Thankfully, JAWS also has braille drivers - indeed, one of the principal
improvements in JAWS7 was to make it possible, for the first time, I
believe, for a deaf-blind person to run their computer using Windows totally
without speech. And there's even a free, open-source braille program being
developed. (I came across that by accident last week. Anybody interested
in more on that?)
I have sometimes thought that perhaps some use of Grade 2 braille as a
little-known alternative to CAPTCHA could be devised somehow, say, for the
deaf-blind and those of us who know contracted braille. (A similar scheme
for other languages, of course, where applicable.) Folk like yahoo,
Microsoft, etc. - you've got to give them an alternative because they didn't
always use CAPTCHA, to counteract the spam-bots. I don't like CAPTCHA, but
it's a big pain we have to live with at present.
----- Original Message -----
From: tonysweeney <mailto:tonysweeney1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Javaa Scripts
Hi Tony,
You know I was always brought up to understand that it is a noble and a good
thing for one to apologise.
I must apologise myself if I took you up wrongly in your opinion but maybe
early Mondays maybe are not such a great ideas for sending such emails!!
Now I usually read over very carefully a couple of times articles I come
across that I think would be of interest to fellow listers.
I do thankfully work and am fairly busy otherwise. It does take up an amount
of my spare time collating such articles; it is not done willy-nilly I
assure you!
I sent the article on Captchas more for ideas from people, to see what they
thought! Perhaps I should have mentioned that in a forwarding note!
Let people have a reasoned debate on issues!
Captchas did apparently assist that man in that article!
I am not saying whether I am in favour of them or not!
I will need to hear and read more on the matter from professionals in the
area like yourself and others.
Is there a policy from Vics on Captchas?
In the access for all you mentioned, for example I am using a computer with
speech. Now Jaws would be of no use to a deaf-blind person; Don't know how
a person with no arms could use a computer, but I'm sure it is possible!
You know if we all were to wait to have access for all ideally, no disabled
group would get very far on in a lifetime.
I emphasize I am in favour of access for all!
Now could we all have a reasoned debate on the matter?
Perhaps I might even be educated!
Anyway normal transmission should resume!
All the best,
Tony Sweeney.
----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tony Murray" <tony@xxxxxxxx>
To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:45 PM
Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Javaa Scripts
> Hi Tony,
>
> I must apologise. If you felt my negative comments were directed at you,
> then let me assure you I never meant them to come across that way.
>
> The article, as I said, in my opinion is not a good one. Captchas, by
their
> very nature, are a bad idea. As far as I know, there is no real way of
> having a fully accessible instance of one. If people such as web
designers,
> project managers etc read such an article, they may think that having the
> additional audible clip is the accepted and fool-proof solution. It is
not,
> and I don't think Captchas will ever be truly accessible.
>
> My point was, and I do apologise if I didn't put it in the best way I
could
> have, creating this bolt-on supposedly acceptable accessibility fix and
> sticking it on to a technology as a whole, i.e. Captchas, that will
probably
> never be usable to many disabled people is not to be encouraged in the
> least. The whole area is bad news.
>
> Given that you didn't initially comment in favour or against the article,
I
> felt I had to. This was to eliminate any ambiguities as regards our
> position as a society which may arise, especially when someone searches
our
> email archives.
>
> This is not my list, this is our list. I'd urge you to continue to use
it;
> I've told you before that you are a valued contributor.
>
> To finish, I will say once more that I'm sorry if I offended you in any
way.
> I feel strongly on this subject, as it effects us all as Internet Users.
If
> my language was over the top, I do apologise.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tony
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tonysweeney" <tonysweeney1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 3:39 PM
> Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Javaa Scripts
>
>
> >I feel your reaction to be ____________way over the top
> > Surely something is better than nothing till we get the inclusivity
> > "design
> > For All" we all seek!
> > Pity you couldn't have given a more reasoned response!
> > I am not speaking for the article writer but his peace seemed reasonable
> > enough under the circumstances.
> > I doubt that anyone would be so stupid as to think that an article
> > forwarded to your list would necessarily be the opinion of Vics!
> > Surely all thoughts and opinions should be discussed with respect and in
> > a
> > civilized manner!
> > Why do you not contact the editor and article writer giving your opinion
> > there?
> > You will have no worries about me forwarding articles to your list in
the
> > future because I won't be!_____
> > I am also seriously considering not renewing my membership when it is
due
> > around again.
> > Disgusted.
> > Tony Sweeney.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tony Murray" <Tony.G.Murray@xxxxxx>
> > To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:21 AM
> > Subject: [vicsireland] Re: Javaa Scripts
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I don't think the below article is particularly helpful to anyone, and
> > it's
> > message is skewed in my opinion. To be honest, I'd prefer not to see
this
> > kind of stuff posted on our list, as I'd hate to think that VICS would
> > support recommendations like the below.
> >
> > "captchas can be made accessible by using audio clips in addition to
> > images
> > to verify users as human. Some sites, like LiveJournal.com, already do
> > this."
> >
> > Yeah, Right!
> >
> > - What about deaf/blind people?
> > - What about those using single channel soundcards? (Jaws won't speak
> > while
> > the audio clip is playing in this case)
> > - What about people using magnification and who have no soundcard? (I
bet
> > those distorted images are pretty tough to make out for someone using
> > something like Lunar)
> > - What about someone who may have cognitive difficulties?
> > - What about those with dexterity problems?
> > - What about someone who just can't really type that quickly?
> >
> > Hardly 'design for all'. Captchas = bad. I don't know how you would
make
> > them truly accessible, but the below suggestion is fairly pathetic.
There
> > must be an alternative solution to the use of Captchas.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Tony
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "tonysweeney" <tonysweeney1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "vics" <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 2:20 AM
> > Subject: [vicsireland] Javaa Scripts
> >
> >
> >> Chicago Defender, IL, USA
> >> Friday, February 09, 2007
> >>
> >> As Web evolves, blind left behind
> >>
> >> By Tim Spangler
> >>
> >> The last time Ray Campbell tried to buy Cubs tickets online,
Tickets.com
> >> asked him to enter the text in a distorted image in order to prove that
> >> he
> >> was
> >> not a robot programmed to automatically buy tickets for scalpers. .
> >>
> >> The only problem: Campbell couldn't read the text in the image. In
fact,
> >> he
> >> couldn't see it at all - he's been blind his entire life.
> >>
> >> "All I want to do is buy tickets and I can't do that, because there's
> >> this
> >> verification and they have not provided an audio link to it," Campbell
> >> said.
> >>
> >> For America's nearly 2 million blind or visually impaired Internet
users,
> >> problems like these can prevent them from taking advantage of all the
Web
> >> has
> >> to offer.
> >>
> >> "The two challenges with Web accessibility are not just being able to
> >> access
> >> the site, but being able to use the site," said Leah Gerlach, director
of
> >> counseling
> >> at the Diecke Center for Vision Rehabilitation in Wheaton.
> >>
> >> Gerlach said the growing use of multimedia video on Web sites creates a
> >> significant accessibility challenge, saying that Internet video can
> >> confuse
> >> the
> >> screen reading software that blind and visually impaired people use to
> >> browse the Internet.
> >>
> >> Blind Browsing
> >>
> >> Blind and visually impaired people use special software called screen
> >> readers that "speak" to them in a synthetic voice what is happening on
> >> the
> >> screen.
> >>
> >> When browsing a Web site, a screen reader examines a page's code and
> >> determines how the page is laid out and what links are on it, then
reads
> >> the
> >> content
> >> of the page to a user.
> >>
> >> Screen readers rely on explanatory text, defined by webmasters, to
> >> interpret
> >> images. Because of this, the World Wide Web Consortium, which sets
> >> Internet
> >> standards, requires developers to define alternative text for every
image
> >> on
> >> a page.
> >>
> >> Multimedia content, like Adobe Flash, is unintelligible to screen
readers
> >> and is skipped entirely when the page is read. Sites that rely heavily
on
> >> Flash
> >> should be sure to offer accessible, text-only versions of their pages.
> >>
> >> Screen reading software uses text-to-speech conversion, machines that
> >> translate on-screen text to Braille or a combination of both to present
a
> >> Web page
> >> to a blind or visually impaired user.
> >>
> >> The challenges
> >>
> >> Campbell is a technician at the assistive technology help desk at the
the
> >> Chicago Lighthouse, an organization for the blind and visually
impaired.
> >> A
> >> former
> >> software engineer at Lucent Technologies, he now takes calls from blind
> >> and
> >> visually impaired people across the U.S. and Canada and helps them
solve
> >> computer
> >> problems and navigate Web sites.
> >>
> >> Campbell identified what he said are the Web's three major
accessibility
> >> problems: graphics without descriptive text, required plug-in
> >> installations
> >> and
> >> visual registration tests, called captchas, an acronym for "Completely
> >> Automated Public Turing Test to Tell Computers and Humans Apart."
> >> Captchas
> >> are
> >> particularly troublesome when it comes to accessibility.
> >>
> >> Why captchas?
> >>
> >> Many major sites require users to verify that they are actually human -
> >> not
> >> automated robots. By presenting the browser with a captcha - an image
of
> >> distorted
> >> text that is difficult for a computer to decode - and asking the user
to
> >> enter the text they see in the image, robots can be blocked from the
site
> >> while
> >> human users who can see the text are given access. Campbell said that
> >> captchas can be made accessible by using audio clips in addition to
> >> images
> >> to verify
> >> users as human. Some sites, like LiveJournal.com, already do this.
> >>
> >> What works, what doesn't
> >>
> >> Blogging, a growing Internet phenomenon, is still largely text-based
and
> >> tends to be more screen reader friendly than other applications.
> >>
> >> "My experience has taught me that [blogging] is pretty accessible,"
said
> >> Campbell, who keeps his own blog on LiveJournal.
> >>
> >> "Screen readers can handle a lot of the current techniques that are
being
> >> used in Web design," Campbell said, as long as designers take extra
care
> >> to
> >> make
> >> their sites accessible. These include avoiding the use of images to
> >> display
> >> text, providing audio narration for videos and offering text-only
> >> versions
> >> of pages with multimedia content.
> >>
> >> As interactive, multimedia Web sites become more prevalent, blind and
> >> visually impaired users might find themselves behind the curve as
> >> designers
> >> forgo
> >> accessible pages for glitzy ones and screen reading software lags
behind,
> >> said Leah Gerlach at the Diecke Center
> >>
> >> "We don't drive change. We have to follow it and keep up with it,"
> >> Gerlach
> >> said. "We're always six months behind cutting edge because we have to
> >> be."
> >>
> >> Tim Spangler is a reporter for the Medill News Service.
> >>
> >> http://www.chicagodefender.com/page/local.cfm?ArticleID=8439
> >>
> >
> > ******************************************************
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